Gold Cup 2013

Post by **Sabo** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:14 am

The whole idea of putting temporary grass fields on top of artificial turf is asinine. If CONCACAF requires real grass fields, then maybe they should play the games in stadia that have real grass. What a brilliant concept?

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:46 am

I don't understand why CONCACAF requires grass fields when FIFA doesn't.
Costa Rica is famous for playing all it's WCQs on artificial grass field (Saprisa's stadium).
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/so ... eport.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **Sabo** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:01 am

I could be wrong about it being a CONCACAF requirement. But my point still stands ... it's stupid to put temporary grass fields on top of artificial turf.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:06 am

yup stupid all around but they want the big bucks :(

Is Soldier Field on Sunday natural grass?

Post by **brian** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:08 am

degenerasian wrote:yup stupid all around but they want the big bucks :(

Is Soldier Field on Sunday natural grass?

Should be, yeah. They play football on natural grass.

howard · Post by **howard** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:20 am

brian wrote:Should be, yeah. They play football on natural grass.

Also strongly recommended for Bears fans.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:41 am

wlu_lax6 wrote:Sounds like another case of a bad job putting down temporary grass. Love that Green Sand
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer ... t=sc_t2_a4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's the deal with this, is the artificial turf not suitable for soccerball? They've played other GC games on artificial.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:42 am

Sabo wrote:I could be wrong about it being a CONCACAF requirement. But my point still stands ... it's stupid to put temporary grass fields on top of artificial turf.

They did that here a few years ago, when RSL was playing in Rice Eccles, and hosted a qualifier one year and Real Madrid the next. It worked well both times.

I think the problem may just be that they did a shitty job.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:56 am

Steve of phpBB wrote:
Sabo wrote:I could be wrong about it being a CONCACAF requirement. But my point still stands ... it's stupid to put temporary grass fields on top of artificial turf.
They did that here a few years ago, when RSL was playing in Rice Eccles, and hosted a qualifier one year and Real Madrid the next. It worked well both times.

I think the problem may just be that they did a shitty job.

I had no idea (because I was totally spacing out) that MBT put down temporary grass. It was done VERY well.

But, in general, it usually turns out poorly. We remember that shitty job done up in Seattle for that WCQ in June, right?

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:06 am

Johnson's dummy on the first goal was really nice. Not great defending from the visitors last night, but the US played pretty well.

Have to believe the Gold Cup folks are not happy Mexico goes out last night. Rose Bowl will be a bit emptier without them.

Post by **Sabo** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:07 am

Really? No talk at all about either Gold Cup game? OK, then I'll start.

The US might've played a perfect game in the first half. I really can't think of any deficiencies in the opening 45. Honduras never really threatened in the first half. Donovan's assist on the Eddie Johnson goal? Um, yeah, more please. Just a fantastic ball over the top, and EJ had the speed to carry the breakaway. The first Donovan goal? No fault from anyone there, just a nice cross to Donovan, who chested it down and hit a volley into the net. Great stuff.

The second half? Well, things were less than brilliant there. I think Bedoya is the one getting the grief for not marking the Honduran player who scored, but guess who was standing next to the scorer and did absolutely nothing? That's right, Clarence Goodson. The US has given up a few goals on set pieces during this Gold Cup, and I think Goodson has been (un)involved in all of them. No bueno. At least the US responded right away, once again set up from a nice cross to Donovan, who had a wide open goal.

I don't know if it's because Honduras started getting chippy, but the US slowed down the pace after that and rode it out. I'd rather see them attack-attack-attack pretty much all the time, but that didn't happen after the third goal.

And seriously, that ref was fucking useless. DMB gets tackled from behind by TWO Honduran players right in front of Klinsmann, who bitches at the ref. And what does the ref do? He tosses Klinsmann. Absolutely ridiculous, and it means Klinsmann is off the bench for the finals. Supposedly the CONCACAF disciplinary committee will review the ref's game notes and then decide if Klinsmann can be reinstated. I think we all know how that will go down.

All in all, a good win for the US, but I hope we're not set up for a let down on Sunday.

As for the Panama-Mexico match, I watched the first half, although I missed the Panamanian goal in the 15th minute. (I just saw the highlight, and Quintero passed off to Blas Perez on the right flank, who hit a screamer close to the goal. Nice finish.) I figured with a 1-0 lead after 15 minutes, this game would devolve into 75 minutes of phantom injuries, cramps and general whining by Panama. Fortunately I didn't see any of that. I did see a well taken Mexico goal, after Fabian crossed over to Montes for what Grant Wahl called a "cabezazo". Very nice bullet header to equalize for the Mexicans.

I missed the second half, but Panama scored on a header off a corner kick. The Mexican defender Huiqui did his best Goodson impression and allowed Roman Torres to get his head on the ball. Mexico almost equalized in the 79th minute, but the chip shot was barely deflected by the Panamanian keeper, but it was enough for the ball to land on top of the goal. And of course, the Panamanian keeper was "injured" on the play.

So, we have US vs Panama this Sunday at Soldier Field. I hope the US scores early and often so we can avoid the Panamanian histrionics.

Video highlights of US vs Honduras: http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/vide ... odule-home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Video highlights of Panama vs Mexico: http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/vide ... odule-home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

testy boxcar · Post by **testy boxcar** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:34 am

wlu_lax6 wrote:Have to believe the Gold Cup folks are not happy Mexico goes out last night. Rose Bowl will be a bit emptier without them.

Rose Bowl is going to be a ghost town.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:12 am

I thought the final was in California. Yes will be very empty (unless there is motocross or something)

BuffloSoldier · Post by **BuffloSoldier** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:54 am

Wondo's the current version of Kreis, Twellmann, etc.

Excellent in MLS. Short in the national team picture.

I just can't see him doing consistently well against non-CONCACAF teams.

I'm happy with the depth being shown.

I don't want Parkhurst anywhere near a big game.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:58 am

So hilarious to see El Tri flame out again. Though unfortunately that means the end of de la Torre.

testuser2 · Post by **testuser2** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:02 am

Sabo wrote:guess who was standing next to the scorer and did absolutely nothing? That's right, Clarence Goodson.

What? You didn't like his 2 inch vertical?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:17 am

BuffloSoldier wrote:Wondo's the current version of Kreis, Twellmann, etc.

Excellent in MLS. Short in the national team picture.

I just can't see him doing consistently well against non-CONCACAF teams.

I'm happy with the depth being shown.

I don't want Parkhurst anywhere near a big game.

Waddup, A?

Agree on Wondo and would reiterate what I posted after El Sal: He doesn't have the speed to compete at that elite level. He's pretty one dimensional.

Also agree on Parkhurst and meant to come back here and amend my recap from the other day to say a LOT of what I didn't like out of Besler on Sunday was actually Parkhurst. I watched the replay and he was definitely guilty of panicking over the ball a lot. Besler had some shaky moments, but I'm not digging Parkhurst out there.

Couple of other observations:

* Watching LD and Eddie link up, both Sunday and again last night--that is what an attacking duo is all about. If you're making dummy runs and your partner knows exactly what you're doing? That's impossible to defend unless you're really clued in. I'm sure Panama is looking at tape of that, but it's like a Pick-and-Roll duo that has their shit down pat... It's incredibly difficult to defend when executed well.

* Not sure folks picked it up, but Bedoya totally lost his man on the HON goal. He then turned around and made up for it with the quick response goal. But, man, watch the replay of that corner kick. WTF was he doing?

* Shea might be another example of a guy that goes oversees and it just doesn't help him. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes at Stoke, but his confidence is FUCKED right now. A year ago, this kid is taking people on and waxing them with regularity. Now we've got a guy that barely wants to go at anyone. I thought he'd gotten past that on Sunday, but he was unimpressive again last night.

* Kind of mixed on Holden last night. He was sitting back in holding spot for big chunks and I was hoping he'd press the play more. Beckerman seemed to be playing that role... and he did a decent job, but there's just that touch of class he's lacking that led to a couple of positive plays petering out. I'd rather see Holden up in the final third.

* I was surprised how flat Honduras was last night, so I guess I'll just go with Cobi's theory that Costa Rica was their final and they didn't have anything left in the tank. Surprising, given how many players you can bring into the mix with this tournament's format.

* Count me as bummed we don't get MEX in Chicago. And part of me worries that not seeing the green shirts will cause some sort of letdown. Not a big concern, but I'm a US fan and I've been trained to find shit to worry about, and to pre-load excuses. :-)

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:21 am

testuser2 wrote:
Sabo wrote:guess who was standing next to the scorer and did absolutely nothing? That's right, Clarence Goodson.
What? You didn't like his 2 inch vertical?

Go back and watch it again. Goodson is all over his man, in fact is trying to get over his man to get to the ball. Bedoya's man is unmarked and has a free header because of the (legal) pic being put on Goodson.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:31 am

I don't have a problem with playing the Pancakes in the final. They're not going to be pushovers. And as satisfying as it would be to beat El Tri, it's pretty amusing that they don't even make it there.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:43 am

Sabo wrote:Really? No talk at all about either Gold Cup game? OK, then I'll start.

The US might've played a perfect game in the first half. I really can't think of any deficiencies in the opening 45. Honduras never really threatened in the first half. Donovan's assist on the Eddie Johnson goal? Um, yeah, more please. Just a fantastic ball over the top, and EJ had the speed to carry the breakaway. The first Donovan goal? No fault from anyone there, just a nice cross to Donovan, who chested it down and hit a volley into the net. Great stuff.

The second half? Well, things were less than brilliant there. I think Bedoya is the one getting the grief for not marking the Honduran player who scored, but guess who was standing next to the scorer and did absolutely nothing? That's right, Clarence Goodson. The US has given up a few goals on set pieces during this Gold Cup, and I think Goodson has been (un)involved in all of them. No bueno. At least the US responded right away, once again set up from a nice cross to Donovan, who had a wide open goal.

I don't know if it's because Honduras started getting chippy, but the US slowed down the pace after that and rode it out. I'd rather see them attack-attack-attack pretty much all the time, but that didn't happen after the third goal.

And seriously, that ref was fucking useless. DMB gets tackled from behind by TWO Honduran players right in front of Klinsmann, who bitches at the ref. And what does the ref do? He tosses Klinsmann. Absolutely ridiculous, and it means Klinsmann is off the bench for the finals. Supposedly the CONCACAF disciplinary committee will review the ref's game notes and then decide if Klinsmann can be reinstated. I think we all know how that will go down.

All in all, a good win for the US, but I hope we're not set up for a let down on Sunday.

As for the Panama-Mexico match, I watched the first half, although I missed the Panamanian goal in the 15th minute. (I just saw the highlight, and Quintero passed off to Blas Perez on the right flank, who hit a screamer close to the goal. Nice finish.) I figured with a 1-0 lead after 15 minutes, this game would devolve into 75 minutes of phantom injuries, cramps and general whining by Panama. Fortunately I didn't see any of that. I did see a well taken Mexico goal, after Fabian crossed over to Montes for what Grant Wahl called a "cabezazo". Very nice bullet header to equalize for the Mexicans.

I missed the second half, but Panama scored on a header off a corner kick. The Mexican defender Huiqui did his best Goodson impression and allowed Roman Torres to get his head on the ball. Mexico almost equalized in the 79th minute, but the chip shot was barely deflected by the Panamanian keeper, but it was enough for the ball to land on top of the goal. And of course, the Panamanian keeper was "injured" on the play.

So, we have US vs Panama this Sunday at Soldier Field. I hope the US scores early and often so we can avoid the Panamanian histrionics.

Video highlights of US vs Honduras: http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/vide ... odule-home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Video highlights of Panama vs Mexico: http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/vide ... odule-home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just to reiterate what Sabo says here, game is in Chicago, not the Rose Bowl.

Sabo, we'll agree to disagree on that goal and Goodson's role. Bedoya deserves the lion's share on that because it was his man and Goodson was getting held down by the guy he was marking. If you're playing zonal D, then fine, Goodson deserves blame; but if you're jersey-on-jersey and you let your guy get 3 yards on you, he's going to hear about it.

I'm not so sure JK is out for Sunday. As a quick aside, the directing of the broadcast was shitty last night. At one point, one of the teams was charging towards the 18 and they switched to a tight shot of the Hondo coach. Then, they totally botched that sequence with JK getting tossed. First, he apparently spiked the ball as part of his reaction. That was never shown, to my knowledge, even on replay. And did the ref issue a red card?? If so, that was never shown on camera. And it as VERY strange no one from Fox ever got any clarity on that.

At any rate, while I'd rather have him there Sunday, bigger picture I liked that he was fed up enough, and worried about the safety of his players enough, to pitch that fit. From about the 60th minute on, it was clear Hondo were exhausted and frustrated. Najar was lucky not to get a red for taking out DMB and there were just a bunch of nasty, dirty after the ball was gone bullshit. The ref was, as you say, useless.

If I'm USSF, I've got a package pulled together of all the shit that guy let go that either should've been a foul or a card. If they don't let JK on the bench this weekend, that stuff is getting "leaked" on YouTube for everyone to examine.

Post by **Sabo** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:10 pm

You're probably right about Bedoya being more to blame than Goodson on the Honduran goal, but Goodson has looked VERY poor defending set pieces during the Gold Cup. So, maybe I'm just inclined to blame him than Bedoya.

From what I read last night, refs cannot issue cards to coaches, but they can eject them. That's why Klinsmann didn't get a card but was sent off the field.

And yes, the TV direction was pretty bad. There was no video shown of Klinsmann slamming the ball down, so I don't know if it was done before or after he was ejected. But seriously, is slamming a ball down worthy of ejection? If a player does it on the field they get a yellow card, but why sanction the coaching staff harder if slamming the ball down has no impact on the game's outcome? If a player did it, it can affect the outcome (mostly for time wasting).

Even more ridiculous is the only card issues last night was for Eddie Johnson for not getting out of the way of a free kick. The Honduran players were doing a quick free kick ... EJ didn't have much time to get out of the way. Again, that ref was horrible. He wasn't as bad as that douche during the 2010 World Cup game, but he was getting closer and closer as the game went on. How the hell did none of the officials see Stu Holden get elbowed in the jaw in the box? The linesman should've been RIGHT THERE to see that.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:16 pm

Good clarification on the card / no card thing... That actually makes me think it's more likely he will be there on Sunday. It's not like they'd have to rescind a red card, they just have to move around in what I'm sure is a huge gray area.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:21 pm

When I watched the elbow in real time I thought it was accidental. Replays made it look bad.

BuffloSoldier · Post by **BuffloSoldier** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:39 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
Waddup, A?

Agree on Wondo and would reiterate what I posted after El Sal: He doesn't have the speed to compete at that elite level. He's pretty one dimensional.

Also agree on Parkhurst and meant to come back here and amend my recap from the other day to say a LOT of what I didn't like out of Besler on Sunday was actually Parkhurst. I watched the replay and he was definitely guilty of panicking over the ball a lot. Besler had some shaky moments, but I'm not digging Parkhurst out there.

Couple of other observations:

* Watching LD and Eddie link up, both Sunday and again last night--that is what an attacking duo is all about. If you're making dummy runs and your partner knows exactly what you're doing? That's impossible to defend unless you're really clued in. I'm sure Panama is looking at tape of that, but it's like a Pick-and-Roll duo that has their shit down pat... It's incredibly difficult to defend when executed well.

* Not sure folks picked it up, but Bedoya totally lost his man on the HON goal. He then turned around and made up for it with the quick response goal. But, man, watch the replay of that corner kick. WTF was he doing?

* Shea might be another example of a guy that goes oversees and it just doesn't help him. I have no idea what's going on behind the scenes at Stoke, but his confidence is FUCKED right now. A year ago, this kid is taking people on and waxing them with regularity. Now we've got a guy that barely wants to go at anyone. I thought he'd gotten past that on Sunday, but he was unimpressive again last night.

* Kind of mixed on Holden last night. He was sitting back in holding spot for big chunks and I was hoping he'd press the play more. Beckerman seemed to be playing that role... and he did a decent job, but there's just that touch of class he's lacking that led to a couple of positive plays petering out. I'd rather see Holden up in the final third.

* I was surprised how flat Honduras was last night, so I guess I'll just go with Cobi's theory that Costa Rica was their final and they didn't have anything left in the tank. Surprising, given how many players you can bring into the mix with this tournament's format.

* Count me as bummed we don't get MEX in Chicago. And part of me worries that not seeing the green shirts will cause some sort of letdown. Not a big concern, but I'm a US fan and I've been trained to find shit to worry about, and to pre-load excuses. :-)

Not much, BGK/Jer. Are you on Twitter?

I think the injuries have taken that top shelf ability out of Holden. Hopefully I'm wrong, but in my opinion he'll be backup/spot starter level for the rest of his USMNT career. Hope I'm wrong.

As for Shea, I think he needs to play regularly to get out of the funk that injury put him in/has him in. He's not going to see regular PT at Stoke, and a loan seems to be a good idea in my mind, but it won't happen for a while, and that's only going to hurt him. But a long time 'til next summer.

BuffloSoldier · Post by **BuffloSoldier** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:41 pm

I missed the last 12 minutes or so putting the squirt to bed, so I missed the JK getting sent off as it happened.

I think he'll be allowed to coach with a "suspended sentence" of if you act up again, blah blah blah suspensioncakes.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:14 am

Gold Cups of the Past
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer ... =sc_t1t_a4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **Sabo** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:37 am

Chepo was pelted with cups while walking into the locker room after Mexico's loss to Panama. No word on if the cups were filled with urine.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:14 am

unreal. nobody saw that??

Post by **Sabo** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:18 am

Hard to see fouls like that when you have your head up your ass.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:15 pm

Sabo wrote:Hard to see fouls like that when you have your head up your ass.

That is the kind of play that FIFA/CONCACAF needs to do post game video review and suspensions/fines. Start making these countries pay when they're players start getting thuggish.

This foul is kind of similar to the one on Terrence Boyd when we lost to El Salvador to get bounced out of the Olympics a couple of years ago. That one is an even better example of needing video review, because it was off the ball. Dude just cold cocks Boyd in the face, blood everywhere. One of the dirtiest plays I've ever seen.

I'm proud of the fact that I'm not sure I've ever seen a US guy do something like that. I'm sure there's something, somewhere that I'm forgetting. But off the top of my head... nope.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:33 pm

This is one place where the MLS has done the right thing. The officiating with the MLS is not world class, but the review panel had helped with dives and poor card decisions by officials.

Post by **Sabo** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:08 pm

Per Grant Wahl, Klinsmann has been suspended for the Gold Cup final and Martin Vazquez will coach the team.

Asinine. How about suspending the ref for being an incompetent fuck?

Post by **Sabo** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:05 am

Who's on the CONCACAF Disciplinary Committee?

http://www.tropigol.com/2013/04/16/conc ... mberships/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

7. Disciplinary Committee

The Disciplinary Committee shall preside over disciplinary matters where tournaments other than the Gold Cup regional championship are concerned, having a say in the length and severity of suspensions and fines resulting from foul play. The committee will serve as the final appeal recourse for Associations where competition related matters are concerned.

Chairman: Alfredo Hawit (Honduras); Vice Chair: Ariel Alvarado (Panama); Members: David Sabir (Bermuda), Peter Campbell (Cayman Islands), Luis Hernandez (Cuba), Carlos Mendez (El Salvador), Jose Ernesto Mejia (Honduras), Enrique Bonilla (Mexico), Rolando Lopez (Nicaragua), Lincoln Sutherland (Jamaica) and Mike Edwards (United States).

Hmm.

From what I understand, the ONLY thing the committee was allowed to consider when making the decision is the referee's report. That's what annoys me the most.

So, if you're keeping score at home, CONCACAF thinks a coach slamming a ball down is worse than an intentional elbow to a player's face in the penalty area. OK, that makes sense.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:48 am

It's CONCACAF, it'll never make sense.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:21 pm

That was handball in the box for sure. Blocking space.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:38 pm

You best Brek yourself lest you wreck yourself

Post by **Sabo** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:39 pm

Stu Holden tore the ACL in his right knee yesterday. Will be out at least nine months. Absolutely gutted for the guy.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:09 pm

Sabo wrote:Stu Holden tore the ACL in his right knee yesterday. Will be out at least nine months. Absolutely gutted for the guy.

Jeebus. He has the worst luck. Best case scenario, he still can't make it back in shape for Brazil then. Holden missed the last World Cup when he broke his leg in the Friendlies leading up to the Cup. He seems like the greatest guy, too. Seriously sucks.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:35 am

Bolton stood by Stu last time. Do they stand by him again?

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:33 am

At what point does the drive to rehab wane? He never seemed like a fleet attacking type so his distribution type game may be ok to keep him on a MLS roster (or even higher level) with all the ACL successes recently but I wonder whether hes up for it anymore since the world cup and top league stuff is probably over. I have no doubt he can get back on the field and have a career playing soccer but its got to be tough on the psyche, especially with the long road ahead.