NFL Week 17 - The Querst To Tie The Worst

Post by **brian** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:39 pm

With the benefit of hindsight, Cleveland winning all four preseason games should have been an omen that the 2008 Lions and 2017 Browns were destined to go down in history together.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:46 pm

brian wrote:With the benefit of hindsight, Cleveland winning all four preseason games should have been an omen that the 2008 Lions and 2017 Browns were destined to go down in history together.

Marv Levy used to disparage the pre-season more than any coach I can remember. Just looked it up, as it was a long time ago, 1990 the Bills went 0-4 in pre-season being outscored 107-49.

That was the team that lost on the Norwood kick in the Super Bowl (13-3 record).

As for the 2017 Bills... watch the Bengals beat the Ravens and the Bills lose in OT to the Dolphins. Just because it is the Buffalo way.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:10 pm

Pruitt wrote:
brian wrote:With the benefit of hindsight, Cleveland winning all four preseason games should have been an omen that the 2008 Lions and 2017 Browns were destined to go down in history together.

Marv Levy used to disparage the pre-season more than any coach I can remember. Just looked it up, as it was a long time ago, 1990 the Bills went 0-4 in pre-season being outscored 107-49.

That was the team that lost on the Norwood kick in the Super Bowl (13-3 record).

As for the 2017 Bills... watch the Bengals beat the Ravens and the Bills lose in OT to the Dolphins. Just because it is the Buffalo way.

dont forget the chargers

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:17 pm

If the Ravens lose and Bills win, Bills are in.

If Ravens and Bills both win, than Buffalo only makes it if both Titans and Chargers lose.

Hey - I'm not kidding myself. I was in the stadium the last time the Bills came into the last week with a shot at the playoffs (2004) and they lost to the Steelers backups.

Fuck Drew Bledsoe.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:54 pm

I ask that whoever turns on the lights in this place Monday morning make the new Black Monday thread.

GoodKarma · Post by **GoodKarma** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:58 pm

The Black Monday thread will probably be able to be created Sunday night around 7:30pm EST

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:11 pm

GoodKarma wrote:The Black Monday thread will probably be able to be created Sunday night around 7:30pm EST

What do you figure - Fox, Lewis, Pagano, O'Brien, Del Rio, Koetter... all before lunch Monday?

Post by **brian** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:23 pm

Pruitt wrote:
GoodKarma wrote:The Black Monday thread will probably be able to be created Sunday night around 7:30pm EST

What do you figure - Fox, Lewis, Pagano, O'Brien, Del Rio, Koetter... all before lunch Monday?

And Caldwell. Though with as much turnover as there is anticipated to be this year honestly I'd be fine giving Caldwell another year to see what happens. The Lions could (obviously) do better but could also (obviously) do worse. Feel like trying to get a new coach this year -- even more so than most -- is just trying to roll a seven.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:52 pm

If Minnesota's new stadium were opened just one year later, this Sunday's game would rival the Ice Bowl for coldest of all GD time.

Rams Fanny · Post by **Rams Fanny** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:28 pm

Pruitt wrote:
GoodKarma wrote:The Black Monday thread will probably be able to be created Sunday night around 7:30pm EST

What do you figure - Fox, Lewis, Pagano, O'Brien, Del Rio, Koetter... all before lunch Monday?

I can't imagine any team, even the Browns despite their protestations, keeping a coach that will likely be 1-31 on monday morning
Bruce Arians should be gone. Maybe not Monday but within the week.
Whoever is coaching the Broncos.

Post by **brian** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:32 pm

Yeah, I've heard rumblings of as many as 10 openings. And if the Lions are in that 10, then they're just setting themselves up for disappointment.

Rams Fanny · Post by **Rams Fanny** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:49 pm

Any team that hires Jeff Fisher, even as a coordinator, should be immediately contracted.

Post by **brian** » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:00 pm

I'm more worried the Lions will figure themselves leaders in the chance to hire Arians, only to see him hired somewhere else and the Lions having to settle for the ST coordinator in Saskatchewan. The mere fact I'm defending him impassionately means I'm a traitor to a vocal portion of the Lions fanbase, but there's something to be said for both competence and consistency. I think amateur GMs think the answer is always to fire the guy and hire the next guy, but you can give someone who's obviously not overmatched a chance for more than just four years. I mean there's a difference between giving Caldwell a fifth year and giving Marvin Lewis a 9th or 10th year, etc., etc.

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:08 am

i really dont think obrien is getting fired...we were legit when watson was healthy...i dont think you fire him for our entire team being crippled

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:50 am

TT2.0 wrote:i really dont think obrien is getting fired...we were legit when watson was healthy...i dont think you fire him for our entire team being crippled

What about the rumours of the rift he has with McNair?

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:25 am

I would keep O'Brien for one year with Watson but man they've been disappointing for a long time and NOBODY quits quite like the Bill O'Brien Texans.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:43 am

Gunpowder wrote:I would keep O'Brien for one year with Watson but man they've been disappointing for a long time and NOBODY quits quite like the Bill O'Brien Texans.

How do you factor in O'Brien's QB evaluations and their post-injury transactions at QB into whether or not to keep him? I mean, the way Watson played seems to be much more independent of everyone else O'Brien has had take snaps. And, after Watson got hurt, no move for Kaepernick when they saw they could work with a running QB.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:08 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:I would keep O'Brien for one year with Watson but man they've been disappointing for a long time and NOBODY quits quite like the Bill O'Brien Texans.

How do you factor in O'Brien's QB evaluations and their post-injury transactions at QB into whether or not to keep him? I mean, the way Watson played seems to be much more independent of everyone else O'Brien has had take snaps. And, after Watson got hurt, no move for Kaepernick when they saw they could work with a running QB.

I put Kaepernick on the owners without specific info in each case.

But the previous guys sucking is on OB for me.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:05 pm

Gunpowder wrote:
DSafetyGuy wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:I would keep O'Brien for one year with Watson but man they've been disappointing for a long time and NOBODY quits quite like the Bill O'Brien Texans.

How do you factor in O'Brien's QB evaluations and their post-injury transactions at QB into whether or not to keep him? I mean, the way Watson played seems to be much more independent of everyone else O'Brien has had take snaps. And, after Watson got hurt, no move for Kaepernick when they saw they could work with a running QB.

I put Kaepernick on the owners without specific info in each case.

But the previous guys sucking is on OB for me.

B.OB is living so well off his Pats assistant/Penn State post-sanctions rep

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:28 pm

Pruitt wrote:
GoodKarma wrote:The Black Monday thread will probably be able to be created Sunday night around 7:30pm EST

What do you figure - Fox, Lewis, Pagano, O'Brien, Del Rio, Koetter... all before lunch Monday?

Buc's sticking with Koetter

http://www.tampabay.com/article/2017122 ... 99614/1120

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:32 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:
DSafetyGuy wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:I would keep O'Brien for one year with Watson but man they've been disappointing for a long time and NOBODY quits quite like the Bill O'Brien Texans.

How do you factor in O'Brien's QB evaluations and their post-injury transactions at QB into whether or not to keep him? I mean, the way Watson played seems to be much more independent of everyone else O'Brien has had take snaps. And, after Watson got hurt, no move for Kaepernick when they saw they could work with a running QB.

I put Kaepernick on the owners without specific info in each case.

But the previous guys sucking is on OB for me.

B.OB is living so well off his Pats assistant/Penn State post-sanctions rep

Right, so I wonder about the willingness to keep him around when it looks like Watson could be a future star, especially under a coach who knows how to utilize his skill set better. A guy who looks for skill sets like those belonging to Mallett, Osweiler, Savage, Yates, McGloin, etc. should not be allowed anywhere near Watson.

Reich or DeFilippo with Philly could get a ton of development from Watson. Maybe Josh McDaniels could be drawn to Watson's potential. Obviously, McDaniels face planted in Denver, but I like the possibility of him getting more out of Watson than O'Brien.

Post by **brian** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:08 pm

At this point if the Lions DO fire Caldwell as expected I’d be all about them hiring McDaniels.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:29 pm

I don't really know anything to back this up, but I have long suspected the plan is for McDaniels to succeed Belichick when he finally retires.

Post by **brian** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:40 pm

Johnny Carwash wrote:I don't really know anything to back this up, but I have long suspected the plan is for McDaniels to succeed Belichick when he finally retires.

Not Charlie Weis?

Rams Fanny · Post by **Rams Fanny** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:07 pm

brian wrote:
Johnny Carwash wrote:I don't really know anything to back this up, but I have long suspected the plan is for McDaniels to succeed Belichick when he finally retires.

Not Charlie Weis?

Unclear if you are joking but judging by a recent clip, he has successfully overcome his gastric bypass surgery. Not sure any sideline job would be a healthy choice.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:59 pm

Just because I'm petty and sometimes hold grudges, I would root against any team employing head coach Josh McDaniel.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:13 pm

Johnny Carwash wrote:I don't really know anything to back this up, but I have long suspected the plan is for McDaniels to succeed Belichick when he finally retires.

I'd prefer Patricia actually. Josh was shit as a coach/GM and as an OC he gets very predictable. I don't know how much Bill helps crafts game plans, but Patricia seems to be a better coach, and as a bearded man I like Matt's beard.

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:14 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:
DSafetyGuy wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:I would keep O'Brien for one year with Watson but man they've been disappointing for a long time and NOBODY quits quite like the Bill O'Brien Texans.

How do you factor in O'Brien's QB evaluations and their post-injury transactions at QB into whether or not to keep him? I mean, the way Watson played seems to be much more independent of everyone else O'Brien has had take snaps. And, after Watson got hurt, no move for Kaepernick when they saw they could work with a running QB.

I put Kaepernick on the owners without specific info in each case.

But the previous guys sucking is on OB for me.

B.OB is living so well off his Pats assistant/Penn State post-sanctions rep

Right, so I wonder about the willingness to keep him around when it looks like Watson could be a future star, especially under a coach who knows how to utilize his skill set better. A guy who looks for skill sets like those belonging to Mallett, Osweiler, Savage, Yates, McGloin, etc. should not be allowed anywhere near Watson.

Reich or DeFilippo with Philly could get a ton of development from Watson. Maybe Josh McDaniels could be drawn to Watson's potential. Obviously, McDaniels face planted in Denver, but I like the possibility of him getting more out of Watson than O'Brien.

before he got injured watson was the best qb in the league for his last four weeks....putting up 40+ a game. how can you get more out of watsons skillset then that? my reluctance to fire obrien is solely because him and watson together gave me hope for the first time in years...i dont want to lose that

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:36 am

A lot of coaches fall flat in their first shot, like McDaniels did. I thought he was far worse at the GM-ing than the coaches, as the Broncos had a really good offense when he was there as far as I can remmeber. Patricia looks good due to the unknown, like a lot of coaches do over a guy like McD.

He tried to go out and be Belichick from the start. A lot of Belichick's personnel moves are kinda questionable, despite his great overall results. Hell, they might have been ever better over the last 15 years if he'd meddled in the roster a bit less.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:03 am

Wonder if they won't say he made one move too few in not walking from Brady for 18-19. Tough call for sure but one hes made many times in similar situations.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:43 am

TT2.0 wrote:
DSafetyGuy wrote:Right, so I wonder about the willingness to keep him around when it looks like Watson could be a future star, especially under a coach who knows how to utilize his skill set better. A guy who looks for skill sets like those belonging to Mallett, Osweiler, Savage, Yates, McGloin, etc. should not be allowed anywhere near Watson.

Reich or DeFilippo with Philly could get a ton of development from Watson. Maybe Josh McDaniels could be drawn to Watson's potential. Obviously, McDaniels face planted in Denver, but I like the possibility of him getting more out of Watson than O'Brien.

before he got injured watson was the best qb in the league for his last four weeks....putting up 40+ a game. how can you get more out of watsons skillset then that? my reluctance to fire obrien is solely because him and watson together gave me hope for the first time in years...i dont want to lose that

With Watson's ability to run, I have to wonder how much of Houston's success with him was due to improvisation/creating stuff from nowhere/being a running threat as opposed to play-calling and scheme. In other words, would ANY coach have gotten that out of Watson (no NFL tape on Watson, Watson's running and improvisational skills) or was it the doings of the current coach, who failed to get anything close to that out of many quarterbacks, including some he hand-picked or had previous coaching relationships?

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:09 pm

Gunpowder wrote:A lot of coaches fall flat in their first shot, like McDaniels did. I thought he was far worse at the GM-ing than the coaches, as the Broncos had a really good offense when he was there as far as I can remmeber. Patricia looks good due to the unknown, like a lot of coaches do over a guy like McD.

He tried to go out and be Belichick from the start. A lot of Belichick's personnel moves are kinda questionable, despite his great overall results. Hell, they might have been ever better over the last 15 years if he'd meddled in the roster a bit less.

I can't dispute much of what you said, there. He got more out of Kyle Orton than any other coach, and they made the playoffs and beat the Steelers in the first round with Tim frickin' Tebow at QB. That offense wasn't that good and the defense carried them for the most part.

My biggest issue with McDaniel was that he behaved like such a goddam asshole the whole time he was in Denver. Hopefully, he learned and matured from that. But, I'll always root against him.

ETA: scratch that part about the playoffs with Tebow. That was Grandpa John Fox at HC, not McDaniel.

Post by **brian** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:14 pm

HaulCitgo wrote:Wonder if they won't say he made one move too few in not walking from Brady for 18-19. Tough call for sure but one hes made many times in similar situations.

There would be an ironic result if Garrapollo turns out to be great and the Patriots suck for a decade after Brady because Belichick didn’t make the same move he’s done dozens of times before.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:49 pm

brian wrote:
HaulCitgo wrote:Wonder if they won't say he made one move too few in not walking from Brady for 18-19. Tough call for sure but one hes made many times in similar situations.

There would be an ironic result if Garrapollo turns out to be great and the Patriots suck for a decade after Brady because Belichick didn’t make the same move he’s done dozens of times before.

Word is Bill wanted to, but Kraft nixed it.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:40 pm

Yeah. In Boston visiting and those are the local whispers.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:19 am

You may have opined on this before brian, but do want to see the Browns match the Lions or would you prefer the team continue own that one by themselves?

Post by **brian** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:23 am

rass wrote:You may have opined on this before brian, but do want to see the Browns match the Lions or would you prefer the team continue own that one by themselves?

Eh, if I'm being super honest I don't really care. At this point I feel like I invested some emotional energy hoping they didn't go 0-16 last year because I didn't want another fanbase to have to deal with that, but given that we're right back here again this year having the same conversation maybe it's time. Hell, the Browns and the Lions are basically tied at the hip as far as NFL history goes, so maybe there's some cosmic relevance.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:39 am

I'm sure it's an old joke - but if the Browns win, will the surviving members of the 2008 Lions get together to open a can of warm Strohs?

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:45 pm

The curse of the Great Lakes Classic.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:00 pm

JuJu is my dog's least favorite player.