Growing the soccer fanbase in America

[Pruitt]

Thoughts?

Olbermann doesn't realize that he's stealing Rick Reilly's schtick.

Nice.

Compare the level of interest this time with last World Cup and the one before that and it's clear that the fan bas is growing already. The US soccer federation is not afraid to bring in a truly world class coach who understands the need to groom new players.

You Americans are lucky, this will be the last World Cup that a heartbreaking exit in the round of 16 will feel satisfactory. The sport is growing and the lack of a famous American soccer announcer (what a dumb point) won't hold the sport back.

Here in Canada, we have a couple of good announcers - and a national team run by guys who think it's still 1980.

[mister d]

The US soccer federation is not afraid to bring in a truly world class coach who understands the need to groom new players.

Speaking for me and other friends who don't follow a ton beyond the world cup, Klinsmann is well liked.

[The Sybian]

You guys are right that it's probably the FIFA game that is creating all of this knowledge in kids. I think that's been a huge part of the growth of soccer fandom and understanding in the States. I remember reading about how Kevin Garnett is a big soccer fan and owns jerseys and watches EPL games. I think it said that it started for him with the FIFA game.

Interesting point. Athletes of all sports seem to be obsessed with EA Sports FIFA series. Rappers, too. Men in Blazers had a picture up of Snoop Dogg playing FIFA, they had Drake on, who featured in the latest FIFA commercial. Drake was saying that the video game led to his passion for the sport. Now he goes to England to watch games, and has become friends with a number of EPL players who invite him to games, send him jerseys, etc.. I believe I saw Jay-Z at the World Cup, Dr. Dre, Will Smith and Justin Timberlake are all supposedly EPL fans. I really think this is important, as it might make soccer cool to black kids. Traditionally, the only black kids playing soccer in the US are middle class suburban kids. That's probably true of white kids, too, but whatever. If we can tap into black athletes (they were bred to have an extra leg muscle, remember), we will improve the player pool. Jurgen tapped into the half black German population, but we need to draw in the domestic blacks.

[Gunpowder]

Won't the aging of "soccer is for fags" types alone help more than any of this?

[degenerasian]

Thoughts?

Olbermann doesn't realize that he's stealing Rick Reilly's schtick.

Nice.

Compare the level of interest this time with last World Cup and the one before that and it's clear that the fan bas is growing already. The US soccer federation is not afraid to bring in a truly world class coach who understands the need to groom new players.

You Americans are lucky, this will be the last World Cup that a heartbreaking exit in the round of 16 will feel satisfactory. The sport is growing and the lack of a famous American soccer announcer (what a dumb point) won't hold the sport back.

Here in Canada, we have a couple of good announcers - and a national team run by guys who think it's still 1980.

Canada's going the opposite way. While the US is moving their home qualifiers away from the metro centers and playing Mexico in Columbus, Canada has decided to no longer play games all over the country and play all games in TORONTO! The immigrant capital of the world!

That aside, success is the only solution. The US keeps qualifying for World Cups and making the later rounds people will get interested. Seven World Cups in a row is an amazing accomplishment. A good parallel would be South Korea, Eight World Cups in a row and hosting one. They've gone soccer mad. Before 1986, soccer in Korea was really nothing. Now every Korean I talk to loves it.

[Ryan]

I'd play 1,000,000 consecutive UEFA regional qualifying tournaments on the hardest level with the Faeroe Islands before I watched one second of MLS.

[degenerasian]

I'd play 1,000,000 consecutive UEFA regional qualifying tournaments on the hardest level with the Faeroe Islands before I watched one second of MLS.

Those games are addictive, I nearly won the world cup with Vietnam.

[howard]

Yeah. Spearhead sucks.

HEY!

I've probably not boasted about this nearly enough on this board, but Franti grew up down the street from me. I've known him forever; we used to play hoops in the summers when he was a high school star/USF scholarship player. He gave up hoops and school to do his music.

…all about each individual person proving how much smarter they were than everyone else.

The Swamp's new motto!

[Nonlinear FC]

I also got over the "SCORE A FUCKING GOAL!" mentality this time around. The games entertained me without the need for a goal to be scored. Mexico/Argentina was great radio.

Ah, yes, a huge mental shift.

And, look, some soccer games are boring as fuck, even in the WC.

To state the obvious: this shit happens in EVERY sport, and in fact high pressure / visibility games often crash the hardest. How many years in a row did the Super Bowl shit the bed? A lot of bowl games are garbage.

I don't make those points to denigrate football... I love football. It's just to counter the soccer is boring trope.

But, even saying that, I do acknowledge the game isn't for everyone. I'm just at a point in my life where I don't need to proselytize anymore. You don't like, I'm not offended.

[degenerasian]

It's tough. I don't explain soccer to someone im a snob. I try to explain 4231 and offside to someone I'm a knowitall.

[mister d]

Oh. Now I feel like a dick.

[Brontoburglar]

It certainly helps right now that ESPN seems to have put all its chips in the middle on soccer broadcasts and coverage of this World Cup. I suspect they will increase their coverage in the future, too.

Anyone else want to break the bad news to SportsDoc on this point? You're a huge hockey fan I know. Remember how ESPN kind of forgot the NHL existed when they lost the rights to it? Well....that's about to happen again.

No, no nearly to that extent, if at all. The NHL wasn't having record ratings when ESPN stopped broadcasting it, right? The president of ESPN wasn't a huge advocate of hockey, right?

A lot can change in four years, but I would expect a fair amount of coverage for the World Cup 2018 for it to be a non-ESPN event.

[Brontoburglar]

You know how they say the sequel is usually worse than the original? Yeah, that works.

The 62 miles thing may be my favorite. Poor little troll, making it so obvious.

[Gunpowder]

I also got over the "SCORE A FUCKING GOAL!" mentality this time around. The games entertained me without the need for a goal to be scored. Mexico/Argentina was great radio.

Ah, yes, a huge mental shift.

And, look, some soccer games are boring as fuck, even in the WC.

To state the obvious: this shit happens in EVERY sport, and in fact high pressure / visibility games often crash the hardest. How many years in a row did the Super Bowl shit the bed? A lot of bowl games are garbage.

I don't make those points to denigrate football... I love football. It's just to counter the soccer is boring trope.

But, even saying that, I do acknowledge the game isn't for everyone. I'm just at a point in my life where I don't need to proselytize anymore. You don't like, I'm not offended.

Nothing has ever been as boring as a 2012 Lakers game.

[joeyclams]

#3 is real, or it was when I was first getting into soccer. People in Lexington that knew soccer already were annoyed when people would show up at bars for world cup games in 1998 that didn't know much abotu the team. Not as much in 2002 because the matches were on at weird times and i wasn't at bars, but in 98 there were the guys with the scarves who were definitely annoyed with a group I was with at a bar a couple of times.

It doesnt' seem as bad these days, and I've genuinely tried to explain tactics to a few of the guys here in the office who showed interest. ONe watched the game with me yesterday.

Then he took this picture in extra time..hope he can care that much next time around:

Knowledgeable soccer fans won't treat new/casual fans like shit if they don't show up and immediately start talking about how they would change the game to make it more watchable or popular. It's fine the way it is. New/casual fans have a bit of responsibility to learn the game and understand the rules before they start spouting off about how the shootout is a stupid way to end a game or how injury/extra time is dumb.

[degenerasian]

#3 is real, or it was when I was first getting into soccer. People in Lexington that knew soccer already were annoyed when people would show up at bars for world cup games in 1998 that didn't know much abotu the team. Not as much in 2002 because the matches were on at weird times and i wasn't at bars, but in 98 there were the guys with the scarves who were definitely annoyed with a group I was with at a bar a couple of times.

It doesnt' seem as bad these days, and I've genuinely tried to explain tactics to a few of the guys here in the office who showed interest. ONe watched the game with me yesterday.

Then he took this picture in extra time..hope he can care that much next time around:

Knowledgeable soccer fans won't treat new/casual fans like shit if they don't show up and immediately start talking about how they would change the game to make it more watchable or popular. It's fine the way it is. New/casual fans have a bit of responsibility to learn the game and understand the rules before they start spouting off about how the shootout is a stupid way to end a game or how injury/extra time is dumb.

This is true, I was at a bar and my non-soccer fan friend sat down and when someone fell he immediately whined about diving. Then I kicked him under the table. See if that hurts or not.

[Nonlinear FC]

Yeah, there's definitely a weird need / desire for non-soccer fan to make sure you know that he / she is not a soccer fan in a lot of situations.

I was at a watch party for the Portugal game, so of course half the people there aren't even watching, and there are a handful of ladies that are just spouting nonsense.

I got up and left and watched it from home. I just can't put up with that shit in that situation. I'm happy to indulge people's bullshit during a friendly or Champions League match.

But, boy... I have less than zero tolerance for USMNT game with anything on the line.

So, I choose to not become a part of the problem pointed out in #3... I'm just not going to be around to be an ass to a soccer newbie.

[govmentchedda]

Yeah, there's definitely a weird need / desire for non-soccer fan to make sure you know that he / she is not a soccer fan in a lot of situations.

I was at a watch party for the Portugal game, so of course half the people there aren't even watching, and there are a handful of ladies that are just spouting nonsense.

I got up and left and watched it from home. I just can't put up with that shit in that situation. I'm happy to indulge people's bullshit during a friendly or Champions League match.

But, boy... I have less than zero tolerance for USMNT game with anything on the line.

So, I choose to not become a part of the problem pointed out in #3... I'm just not going to be around to be an ass to a soccer newbie.

I'm pretty fucking tired of seeing the "Can we forget about soccer for the next 4 years" memes.

[brian]

Yeah, there's definitely a weird need / desire for non-soccer fan to make sure you know that he / she is not a soccer fan in a lot of situations.

I was at a watch party for the Portugal game, so of course half the people there aren't even watching, and there are a handful of ladies that are just spouting nonsense.

I got up and left and watched it from home. I just can't put up with that shit in that situation. I'm happy to indulge people's bullshit during a friendly or Champions League match.

But, boy... I have less than zero tolerance for USMNT game with anything on the line.

So, I choose to not become a part of the problem pointed out in #3... I'm just not going to be around to be an ass to a soccer newbie.

I'm pretty fucking tired of seeing the "Can we forget about soccer for the next 4 years" memes.

In response we should hype the shit out of Gold Cup 2015

[Nonlinear FC]

Yeah, there's definitely a weird need / desire for non-soccer fan to make sure you know that he / she is not a soccer fan in a lot of situations.

I was at a watch party for the Portugal game, so of course half the people there aren't even watching, and there are a handful of ladies that are just spouting nonsense.

I got up and left and watched it from home. I just can't put up with that shit in that situation. I'm happy to indulge people's bullshit during a friendly or Champions League match.

But, boy... I have less than zero tolerance for USMNT game with anything on the line.

So, I choose to not become a part of the problem pointed out in #3... I'm just not going to be around to be an ass to a soccer newbie.

I'm pretty fucking tired of seeing the "Can we forget about soccer for the next 4 years" memes.

In response we should hype the shit out of Gold Cup 2015

Well, the great news is that we don't have to worry about this stuff being promoted. They are perfect money-making vehicles for whatever network owns the rights.

That's part of the beauty of these ridiculous TV numbers out of Brazil... TV follows the money, and this entire WCQ and WC cycle have been amazing for ESPN.

[brian]

Well, the great news is that we don't have to worry about this stuff being promoted. They are perfect money-making vehicles for whatever network owns the rights.

That's part of the beauty of these ridiculous TV numbers out of Brazil... TV follows the money, and this entire WCQ and WC cycle have been amazing for ESPN.

Oh yeah, I just meant amongst our friends on social networks. If they're really hoping to have soccer disappear for four years, fuck em. Let's live tweet every Gold Cup game next year.

[The Sybian]

Well, the great news is that we don't have to worry about this stuff being promoted. They are perfect money-making vehicles for whatever network owns the rights.

That's part of the beauty of these ridiculous TV numbers out of Brazil... TV follows the money, and this entire WCQ and WC cycle have been amazing for ESPN.

How long does BeIN Sports have the rights to US away games? Their coverage sucks. I do like their hot sideline reporters, but that doesn't make up for sub par announcers calling the game from a studio. Their cameras also make it seem like you are watching a video from 20 years ago and the lights went out in the stadium. I know Fox bought the 2018 World Cup and will inevitably fuck it up royally, but did ESPN retain the rights to the USMNT home qualifiers and friendlies? Say what you want about ESPN sucking, but they have gotten damn good at covering soccer.

[govmentchedda]

Well, the great news is that we don't have to worry about this stuff being promoted. They are perfect money-making vehicles for whatever network owns the rights.

That's part of the beauty of these ridiculous TV numbers out of Brazil... TV follows the money, and this entire WCQ and WC cycle have been amazing for ESPN.

How long does BeIN Sports have the rights to US away games? Their coverage sucks. I do like their hot sideline reporters, but that doesn't make up for sub par announcers calling the game from a studio. Their cameras also make it seem like you are watching a video from 20 years ago and the lights went out in the stadium. I know Fox bought the 2018 World Cup and will inevitably fuck it up royally, but did ESPN retain the rights to the USMNT home qualifiers and friendlies? Say what you want about ESPN sucking, but they have gotten damn good at covering soccer.

I don't think BeIN actually has the rights, but rather has bought them on a game by game basis, putting absolutely no money into production, and taking the feed solely from the host country. Didn't some smaller than BeIN channel televise a game within the past year? I want to say the Jamaica game, but I could be wrong. It must be cost prohibitive to bring nice cameras to a foreign country that doesn't already have them on site.

Either way, it does suck to watch CONCACAF away games like it's 1980.

[brian]

Either way, it does suck to watch CONCACAF away games like it's 1980.

Although to be somewhat fair, not watching them at all (or on pay-per-view) as recently as a few years ago was the other option.

[Steve of phpBB]

I was just out to lunch with our lead partner and a couple of other guys older than 65. One of the guys is a real traditional real-American type, owned a business forever, involved in construction.

He was talking about the Belgium game, and when someone else (another of the old guys) asked what time France-Germany was, he was right there with an answer.

So I guess the fan base is growing.

[govmentchedda]

Either way, it does suck to watch CONCACAF away games like it's 1980.

Although to be somewhat fair, not watching them at all (or on pay-per-view) as recently as a few years ago was the other option.

Agreed.

[The Sybian]

I don't think BeIN actually has the rights, but rather has bought them on a game by game basis, putting absolutely no money into production, and taking the feed solely from the host country. Didn't some smaller than BeIN channel televise a game within the past year? I want to say the Jamaica game, but I could be wrong. It must be cost prohibitive to bring nice cameras to a foreign country that doesn't already have them on site.

Either way, it does suck to watch CONCACAF away games like it's 1980.

I think it is Honduras that sold the rights to some 3rd World cable outfit and the only way to get it was illegal online streams. I ended up watching an Arabic Al-Jazeera broadcast of that game. The production value was horrible, but the female anchor of the halftime show was an 11. Now that you mention it, I think the home teams Federation sells the rights to each game, and BeIN bid insanely high on all the games and most non-EPL Euro leagues in order to break into the US market.

[Nonlinear FC]

Well, the great news is that we don't have to worry about this stuff being promoted. They are perfect money-making vehicles for whatever network owns the rights.

That's part of the beauty of these ridiculous TV numbers out of Brazil... TV follows the money, and this entire WCQ and WC cycle have been amazing for ESPN.

How long does BeIN Sports have the rights to US away games? Their coverage sucks. I do like their hot sideline reporters, but that doesn't make up for sub par announcers calling the game from a studio. Their cameras also make it seem like you are watching a video from 20 years ago and the lights went out in the stadium. I know Fox bought the 2018 World Cup and will inevitably fuck it up royally, but did ESPN retain the rights to the USMNT home qualifiers and friendlies? Say what you want about ESPN sucking, but they have gotten damn good at covering soccer.

To be clear, I was talking about next year's Gold Cup and then the Copa America in 2016... and hopefully Confederation's Cup in 2017. That means every summer until 2018 there will be a pretty major event to annoy all of those folks...

[Nonlinear FC]

I don't think BeIN actually has the rights, but rather has bought them on a game by game basis, putting absolutely no money into production, and taking the feed solely from the host country. Didn't some smaller than BeIN channel televise a game within the past year? I want to say the Jamaica game, but I could be wrong. It must be cost prohibitive to bring nice cameras to a foreign country that doesn't already have them on site.

Either way, it does suck to watch CONCACAF away games like it's 1980.

I think it is Honduras that sold the rights to some 3rd World cable outfit and the only way to get it was illegal online streams. I ended up watching an Arabic Al-Jazeera broadcast of that game. The production value was horrible, but the female anchor of the halftime show was an 11. Now that you mention it, I think the home teams Federation sells the rights to each game, and BeIN bid insanely high on all the games and most non-EPL Euro leagues in order to break into the US market.

You are correct, sir. There have been a couple of other instances like that... What I'll be curious to see in the next cycle, given the potential advertising dollars, who will jump into the mix for bidding. ESPN basically just said screw it on that Honduras match... I'm not so sure they'll do that again.

[degenerasian]

I don't think BeIN actually has the rights, but rather has bought them on a game by game basis, putting absolutely no money into production, and taking the feed solely from the host country. Didn't some smaller than BeIN channel televise a game within the past year? I want to say the Jamaica game, but I could be wrong. It must be cost prohibitive to bring nice cameras to a foreign country that doesn't already have them on site.

Either way, it does suck to watch CONCACAF away games like it's 1980.

I think it is Honduras that sold the rights to some 3rd World cable outfit and the only way to get it was illegal online streams. I ended up watching an Arabic Al-Jazeera broadcast of that game. The production value was horrible, but the female anchor of the halftime show was an 11. Now that you mention it, I think the home teams Federation sells the rights to each game, and BeIN bid insanely high on all the games and most non-EPL Euro leagues in order to break into the US market.

That's another point. Get 11s to broadcast soccer on ESPN. American and better than Rebecca Lowe.

[EdRomero]

This Brazil game isn't helping.

[Pruitt]

This Brazil game isn't helping.

Good point - a terrible soccer game made interesting only by the stakes.

[sancarlos]

This article is amusing. According to it, you cheered for the usmnt because of your "misgivings and discomfort with the American mainstream". Also, Will Leitch must be smarting to be characterized as "a less self-aware version of Peter King".

Link

[degenerasian]

This article is amusing. According to it, you cheered for the usmnt because of your "misgivings and discomfort with the American mainstream". Also, Will Leitch must be smarting to be characterized as "a less self-aware version of Peter King".

Link

As a non-American, I find these articles and debates amusing. Why is there a debate at all?

It's not wrong to love soccer and read every piece of soccer news every day from every league.
It's not wrong to hate soccer with every fiber of your being.
It's not wrong to only like the World Cup and watch all the cool teams in it.
It's not wrong to only watch the US in the World Cup and then go back to hating it when the US is eliminated.

Why is there such a push for one side to force the other side to behave a certain way? Why are you a better person if you embrace soccer?

In Canada, we don't care what you're doing. Canadian tv has been showing the World Cup live since 82 when nobody gave a shit and continue to show it now when people still don't give a shit. 1.5 million out of 36 million people watched Brazil-Chile. Canada's not in it afterall. We show all Canadian WCQ games (even on the road!). But that just the television network's duty, we show Canadians doing anything from Davis Cup to International Rugby. Even if nobody's watching.

We don't need homegrown announcers, we just take the world feed. I can't find a Canadian article that debates whether watching the World Cup is good or not, maybe Pruitt can find one for me.

It's there, watch it or not watch it.

[Pruitt]

In Canada, we don't care what you're doing. Canadian tv has been showing the World Cup live since 82 when nobody gave a shit and continue to show it now when people still don't give a shit. 1.5 million out of 36 million people watched Brazil-Chile. Canada's not in it afterall. We show all Canadian WCQ games (even on the road!). But that just the television network's duty, we show Canadians doing anything from Davis Cup to International Rugby. Even if nobody's watching.

We don't need homegrown announcers, we just take the world feed. I can't find a Canadian article that debates whether watching the World Cup is good or not, maybe Pruitt can find one for me.

It's there, watch it or not watch it.

I don't recall ever seeing an article like that.

Even the hockey hosers don't make fun of people for watching soccer.

I aways got the feeling that those who always denigrate soccer and their fans feel threatened for some reason. Maybe it's the idiot's reflex to belittle things they don't understand, maybe it's xenophobia (similar), maybe it reflects a bully's mentality...

Don't know, but glad to see that the opinions of morons like Jim Rome are less and less prevalent.

On a personal level, I am glad that I don't hear the old "soccer is boring" nonsense from baseball fans anymore.

[EdRomero]

There is no real debate. It's talk show fodder. "I hate soccer" articles are trolling #hotsportstake pieces of nonsense to gather clicks and talk show appearances.

[Joe K]

The biggest reason, by far, that I can't get into soccer as much as other sports is that in the important tournaments, teams just play so damn conservatively in the knockout stage games. This weekend, there were only 5 total goals scored in 4 games (1 of which went 120 minutes). And of those 5 goals, 4 came off of set pieces/PKs. Apart from the extra time periods in the Germany-Algeria and U.S.-Belgium games, which were pretty damn exciting, the round-of-16 wasn't much better.

It's not like this year is a fluke either; in 2010, Spain won all four of their knockout games 1-0. I've watched a lot of this World Cup, and enjoyed it, but I found the group stage games to be significantly more entertaining than the knockout stage for this reason.

[degenerasian]

The biggest reason, by far, that I can't get into soccer as much as other sports is that in the important tournaments, teams just play so damn conservatively in the knockout stage games. This weekend, there were only 5 total goals scored in 4 games (1 of which went 120 minutes). And of those 5 goals, 4 came off of set pieces/PKs. Apart from the extra time periods in the Germany-Algeria and U.S.-Belgium games, which were pretty damn exciting, the round-of-16 wasn't much better.

It's not like this year is a fluke either; in 2010, Spain won all four of their knockout games 1-0. I've watched a lot of this World Cup, and enjoyed it, but I found the group stage games to be significantly more entertaining than the knockout stage for this reason.

I agree. Although as a neutral it may be boring but if it were the US instead of Costa Rica today we'd holding our breath on every play. Sometimes I think the World Cup has gotten too important. Win at all costs and if you lose it's too much of a disaster. So teams play scared. It really surprised me this weekend that the French and Belgians were so poor. They weren't even playing conservative, they just couldn't play.

[Pruitt]

But a baseball fan can not complain about soccer being boring.

[brian]

Co-sign. But I have zero faith that Fox isn't going to fuck it up.