2013 Boston Marathon

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:52 pm

Steve, the media is a huge part of this process. The news channels directly profit from fear (to overly simplify).

AB, of course you are right, and it is proper and appropriate to take plenty of security actions, including those you listed. This is a snap judgment (based on a pattern I've seen in 'Merica for twelve years now). The reasonableness of the specific actions will be known. However, the Governor and Mayor have told everybody to stay home. Trains hundreds of miles away are stopped/cancelled. Frankly all I know about the actual degree of 'locked-down ness' is what the media has told me. Over and over and over. Again,media is a huge part in the propagation of disproportionate terror.

Here is a good photostream from Watertown:

http://storify.com/gteresa/what-it-look ... 13c7bbb54a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:53 pm

AB_skin_test wrote:There is a level of overreaction for sure. But a few things seems almost necessary given that they were in a manhunt this morning.

1)All roads out closed/monitored. Trunk checks, etc. at a bare minimum.

2) All places where a guy could blend in also put a large number of people in immediate danger if he had explosives, which is a reasonable enough suspicion. that would be train/subway/bus stations.

I mean, it's not like they shut the city down while they looked all over in a baseless. They were in an active pursuit, and must still feel like they have a general location.

Plus if everyone is sheltering in place, then anyone moving about would be easier to spot.

Yeah, this. I know some of you guys are convinced everything is part of some Pentaverate plot to keep the drones working in the hive.

I just don't buy it. After the shitshow/firefight last night, law enforcement had every reason to lock things down.

You (police) don't know where the guy is, clearly, so you can't just say "oh, that was 'miles away' so everyone else feel free to go to work/school. All's well.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:58 pm

howard wrote:Steve, the media is a huge part of this process. The news channels directly profit from fear (to overly simplify).

AB, frankly all I know about the actual degree of 'locked-down ness' is what the media has told me. Over and over and over. Again,media is a huge part in the propagation of disproportionate terror.

Here is a good photostream from Watertown:

http://storify.com/gteresa/what-it-look ... 13c7bbb54a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You talk like it's a coordinated effort, which is laughable unless you truly do buy into a Pentaverate-level conspiracy theory. I'm not trying to get into it, I'm just pointing out that unless there is more than circumstantial evidence of coordination between elected officials, law enforcement and the media, you're floating into dicey territory.

I want to be clear, I've been calling on the media not to martyr this guy (or other mass murderers). I totally agree with the sentiment that the media is culpable in spreading misinformation and glorifying these assholes. But that's done in the name of profit, not as part of some complicity with "The Government" to spread propaganda with the ultimate goal of taking away more civil liberties.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:59 pm

Everyone in Los Angeles went on to work/school.

We don't know (as I said); we will know with time. Just sayin'--the terrorism worked.

And no, no conspiracy theory is necessary to make this judgment; so keep that straw man for another time. Those same armored personnel carriers and helicopters were aligned against Occupy. Yet, we didn't have any pressure cookers or guns.

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:07 pm

Royals/Red Sox postponed.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:08 pm

howard wrote:Everyone in Los Angeles went on to work/school.

We don't know (as I said); we will know with time. Just sayin'--the terrorism worked.

And no, no conspiracy theory is necessary to make this judgment; so keep that straw man for another time. Those same armored personnel carriers and helicopters were aligned against Occupy. Yet, we didn't have any pressure cookers or guns.

You say the media is part of a process, and that they profit on the fear. But that they are not working with the government.

Ok, no bullshit, I can see what you're saying and we're probably not too far off... I just don't buy that the reaction by the government is a power grab. An overreaction? Maybe. But I don't think it's strategic.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:10 pm

MaxWebster wrote:Rush, an important bit of information here is that the house they're investigating is a block or two from All-Star. I think I speak for both of us when i say i hope no poutine comes to harm as a result of this controlled explosion...

Smoke him out with mint ice cream.

Found a poutine place here, make tradtional as well as duck. Its fantastic.

MaxWebster · Post by **MaxWebster** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:11 pm

i'd be the easiest person on earth to smoke out.

...blast The Analog Kid and leave a trail of junior mints on the sidewalk... "GOT HIM!"

Rush2112 wrote:
MaxWebster wrote:Rush, an important bit of information here is that the house they're investigating is a block or two from All-Star. I think I speak for both of us when i say i hope no poutine comes to harm as a result of this controlled explosion...

Smoke him out with mint ice cream.

Found a poutine place here, make tradtional as well as duck. Its fantastic.

Post by **brian** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:12 pm

Just wanted to make sure you guys all know that we're all hanging on here in Las Vegas.

Scottie · Post by **Scottie** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:14 pm

rass wrote:Royals/Red Sox postponed.

They give a reason? I'm guessing that the cops that would normally be at Fenway are busy with this 10,000 cop manhunt?

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:16 pm

Scottie wrote:
rass wrote:Royals/Red Sox postponed.
They give a reason? I'm guessing that the cops that would normally be at Fenway are busy with this 10,000 cop manhunt?

Nothing specific on the radio report I heard. They did say they have yet to make a call on the Pens/Bruins game.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:18 pm

One of the main reasons they have the city on lockdown is that they don't want this kid to be able to mix into any kind of crowd to escape. You turn traffic and the T back on, and now he's got some cover (potentially.)

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:20 pm

And, you know... I wonder if this kid is somewhere watching TV thinking, geez, Auntie, Uncle. STFU.

One is saying the evidence is staged by the FBI, the other is calling him a loser.

Crazy like a fox?

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:21 pm

howard wrote:Here is a good photostream from Watertown:

http://storify.com/gteresa/what-it-look ... 13c7bbb54a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reminds me of the last scene from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, where the whole Bolivian army is surrounding them and one officer looks at all the firepower and asks incredulously, "Dos hombres?"

kranepool · Post by **kranepool** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:22 pm

MaxWebster wrote:...blast The Analog Kid and leave a trail of junior mints on the sidewalk... "GOT HIM!"

Haven't laughed a whole bunch these last few days, but that has me rolling.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:23 pm

Nonlinear~
The sad thing about the times in which we live, is that overt, top-down conspiracy with specific strategic and tactical planning and execution is not necessary. The best interests of the few people and groups with real power and privilege are slowly, gradually, almost automatically furthered by the actions of many many players, without specific instruction. More often aberrant individuals and forces are neutralized, removed, fade away. A single person who is a consistent truth teller at a newspaper either changed their behavior to keep his/her job, or they eventually stop being a newspaper writer.

(Geez, that sounds more conspiratorial than anything I wrote above. But you don't need a Stalinist regime to get to the point of our country today.)

The best thing Bush and Giuliani did back in 2001 is at the very least voice some words of calm and normalcy. (I think sincerely too. They both sought to personally profit from the panic and fear in other ways later.) You don't get much of that a decade later.

I'm not talking about conspiracy, nor about cynical use of a mass murder and murderous flight to advance gun control or loss of civil liberties (that'll come later, and will be quite transparent).

One particular terror-victim mindset (one I think is bad, wrong and evil) is supported and propagated further by actions of cops, politicians and media. Why, and their motives, need not be reduced to one single master plan to enslave us. Yet, that very end effect remains a distinct danger.

I don't think we are too far apart here.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:23 pm

Steve of phpBB wrote:
The Sybian wrote:Gawker isn't exactly a source of journalism. They did a take down piece of me FFS.
Wait ... what?

Yes, this question

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:23 pm

howard wrote:Everyone in Los Angeles went on to work/school.

And got their trucks ventilated by insane trigger-happy cops.

Scottie · Post by **Scottie** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:26 pm

rass wrote:
Scottie wrote:
rass wrote:Royals/Red Sox postponed.
They give a reason? I'm guessing that the cops that would normally be at Fenway are busy with this 10,000 cop manhunt?
Nothing specific on the radio report I heard. They did say they have yet to make a call on the Pens/Bruins game.

Networks now saying the Bruins game is postponed as well.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:28 pm

And let me offer some props.

Boston and other cops have taken some, and not caused a bit of collateral damage, as far as we know so far. The one car they shot up, the actual guy was driving it.

If nothing else, with transit halted, ballgames and puck games are tough to pull off. After Sandy, the Nets were gonna play until they realized no subways--lots of employees and fans can't get to Barclays.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:28 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:
Steve of phpBB wrote:
The Sybian wrote:Gawker isn't exactly a source of journalism. They did a take down piece of me FFS.
Wait ... what?
Yes, this question

This is a form of humor often used to emphasize a point that is commonly referred to as "sarcasm." I know you don't see it much here in the Swamp but I believe this is the device that our friend, The Sybian, was employing.

garyclark · Post by **garyclark** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:32 pm

To answer the previous question of why the Red Sox and Bruins games are postponed ... it's because we can't get to them.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:38 pm

Look, they played the freakin' Bruins game on Wednesday. If their goal was to keep the city/country under some cloud of fear, they would've canceled all public events until further notice.

Instead, we got one of the most moving and iconic sports moments since Chicago Hawks fans blew the roof off after 9/11.

I think that's why I'm just not buying this notion that the media and govt are creating a bunch of freaked out citizens. People gathered in a massive show of faith/patriotism 2 days after the bombing and gave the finger to any would be terrorist.

They are exercising extreme caution. I'm ok with that.

Scottie · Post by **Scottie** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:39 pm

Really wish the media would leave the Uncle and the extended family the fuck alone. If he knew anything, presumably the FBI would be talking to the guy.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:41 pm

These two guys are gonna end up psychologically closer to the Columbine murderous freaks than Mohammed Atta devoted jihadist.

I loved the uncle's interview. Hopefully it provided him and his family a measure of, um something. But leaving them alone would still be preferable.

garyclark · Post by **garyclark** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:42 pm

Hey Nonlinear, I wasn't making any kind of statement about what I believed was happening in regards to govt/media. Just explaining why they canceled it.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:43 pm

gary--nonlinear and I were kicking an issue back and forth. I think that was meant for me.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:44 pm

garyclark wrote:Hey Nonlinear, I wasn't making any kind of statement about what I believed was happening in regards to govt/media. Just explaining why they canceled it.

Understood, sorry... I tried to thread that comment in response to a convo howard and I were having.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:45 pm

howard wrote:These two guys are gonna end up psychologically closer to the Columbine murderous freaks than Mohammed Atta devoted jihadist.

I loved the uncle's interview. Hopefully it provided him and his family a measure of, um something. But leaving them alone would still be preferable.

And I also stipulate that I am a bit of patriot/sucker, mixed with a bit of an optimist. I was 10 watching the Miracle on Ice.

I fear my worldview as forever corrupted.

:-)

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:46 pm

Do these guys have a Honda fetish? I've seen APBs put out for a CRV, Civic and Odyssey

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:49 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:Look, they played the freakin' Bruins game on Wednesday. If their goal was to keep the city/country under some cloud of fear, they would've canceled all public events until further notice.

Except that there wasn't currently a manhunt in progress. And at that point, carrying on was the proper course of action.

Now, if they let people come out for the bruins game, he pops on a bruins hat over his newly shorn head, and beats feet.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:51 pm

So...

Um...

I haven't seen it discussed much, but... Devoutly Islamic. Family says they've lost touch with them over the years.

You've gotta think the FBI is scouring local mosques to see if there are any signs of radicalism.

It just seems extremely bizarre that these seemingly well-adjusted kids just up and decided to pull something like this off on their own. And that's not to say anyone helped them plan it. But planted the seed?

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:52 pm

AB_skin_test wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:Look, they played the freakin' Bruins game on Wednesday. If their goal was to keep the city/country under some cloud of fear, they would've canceled all public events until further notice.

Except that there wasn't currently a manhunt in progress. And at that point, carrying on was the proper course of action.

Now, if they let people come out for the bruins game, he pops on a bruins hat over his newly shorn head, and beats feet.

Exactly. I had that in a post up-stream.

Scottie · Post by **Scottie** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:55 pm

It just seems extremely bizarre that these seemingly well-adjusted kids just up and decided to pull something like this off on
their own. And that's not to say anyone helped them plan it. But planted the seed?

Not by any means the first time:

viewtopic.php?p=4130#p4130" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:57 pm

CBS now reporting, with full "we're not sure" caveats, that there WAS a robbery at that 7/11, but these two guys weren't the ones doing the robbing.

Only minutiae to most, but I'm still hung up on why these guys would feel the need to rob anyone given the obvious, MASSIVE downside to that type of action.

This leans more towards these guys being at the 7/11, maybe gassing up or getting some Slim Jims and then they see rollers while they're in the parking lot, panic, and all hell breaks loose.

But, again, one source, who wasn't even really owning it. So, given what we know about the media of late... Boulder sized grain of salt.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:58 pm

I think there is a pretty good chance that they panicked. Tried to wait until dark and then get the hell out of town.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:00 pm

Scottie wrote:
It just seems extremely bizarre that these seemingly well-adjusted kids just up and decided to pull something like this off on
their own. And that's not to say anyone helped them plan it. But planted the seed?
Not by any means the first time:

viewtopic.php?p=4130#p4130" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Right, sure... there was the American captured in Afghanistan right at the very beginning of this entire GWOT. He and those kids joined something.

The question I'm raising is, basically, where these guys "got religion."

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:00 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:And I also stipulate that I am a bit of patriot/sucker, mixed with a bit of an optimist. I was 10 watching the Miracle on Ice.

I fear my worldview as forever corrupted.

:-)

Dude, patriotism is a fine thing, which I share. (See Gold Medal Game, 1972 Olympics Men's Basketball.) My cynicism leads me to have much less trust in men holding power, regardless of setting. Govt, corporate, financial, military, Steinbrenners, whatever.

You can eliminate this entire series of events this week, and my worldview is one of a terrorized society that has already sacrificed significant liberties in return for the false promise of greater safety. And of an encroaching police state. Of course I view this week's events through that prejudice. I try my best to temper as well as inform my reactions to these new events. I seek truth and understanding, but I ain't objective (nor is anyone, imo).

Shit, I don't bother disclosing my particular heavy bias in here cause I assume everyone is well aware.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:03 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:So...

Um...

I haven't seen it discussed much, but... Devoutly Islamic. Family says they've lost touch with them over the years.

You've gotta think the FBI is scouring local mosques to see if there are any signs of radicalism.

It just seems extremely bizarre that these seemingly well-adjusted kids just up and decided to pull something like this off on their own. And that's not to say anyone helped them plan it. But planted the seed?

Yeah but that seed usually involves self-sacrifice. It's in the fine print if you want the virgins.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:04 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:Right, sure... there was the American captured in Afghanistan right at the very beginning of this entire GWOT.

I never trusted that Brody guy from the first time I saw him.

oh, sorry. rules: