Better Call Saul thread (Spoilers)

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:47 am

So, Bapo inspired me to start this thread, rather than post yet another "Better Call Saul" comment in the Television thread.

So... I am caught up again on all the episodes. The new one this week about Mike's son certainly sent things to a dark place.

I love the show, but one quibble. In last week's episode, the police came to Chuck's house, after the neighbor called the cops because Chuck stole her newspaper from her driveway. And, they apparently responded right away! In what world does this actually occur? I'm fairly sure that the cops would not have responded to that one. And, then, after Chuck wouldn't open the door to the cops, they peeked in his window, so he had ripped out the circuit breakers, so they broke down his front door? Seems a bit unlikely to me.

But, I quibble. I love the show.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:00 am

Well, 8am on a Wednesday in Albuquerque, I can see it. And they may have taken several hours to respond, I don't remember any detail to indicate they responded immediately.

The cop who looked in the rear window saw a bunch of propane tanks as well as the ripped-out wires. It is a thin connection, but propane burners can be used to cook meth. And one of the cops said "he sure sounds like a tweaker". Which, is wonderful writing, connecting back to Breaking Bad.

As I commented, one of the things I like is the intelligence of the characters. That is not universal - there are dumb characters. Like Tuco. And the cops and the neighbor who called the cops. Who calls the police because your crazy neighbor stole your paper, and left $5? Geez.

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:01 am

sancarlos wrote:So, Bapo inspired me to start this thread, rather than post yet another "Better Call Saul" comment in the Television thread.

So... I am caught up again on all the episodes. The new one this week about Mike's son certainly sent things to a dark place.

I love the show, but one quibble. In last week's episode, the police came to Chuck's house, after the neighbor called the cops because Chuck stole her newspaper from her driveway. And, they apparently responded right away! In what world does this actually occur? I'm fairly sure that the cops would not have responded to that one. And, then, after Chuck wouldn't open the door to the cops, they peeked in his window, so he had ripped out the circuit breakers, so they broke down his front door? Seems a bit unlikely to me.

But, I quibble. I love the show.

The whole busting down the door thing was a little sketch, but one could argue that it was in order to do a welfare check on an occupant that given the disconnection of electrical that they observed, may have been a methamphetamine manufacturer. I'm just playing devil's advocate. Generally you'd go back, get a search warrant, then bust down the door, but if you were a lawyer trying to defend the actions of the police, that'd be my angle. I think that's why they had one cop say "yea, we got ourselves a tweaker" to the other one, establishing the idea that they were going in there based on drug evidence.

Howard can come in here and clarify why 1) why that is completely unjust and 2) why our government is still totally OK with it and would side with the cops 90% of the time.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:04 am

I haven't seen this week, so I'm looking forward to that.

On your quibble's: I don't know that I interpreted the cops showed up because of the newspaper theft, but more that she saw him in that crazy blanket and probably rarely sees the guy, thinks he's a freak, and this was her opportunity to get someone over there to see what's what.

And I'm glad you started this thread. I wanted to post something relevant, but thought it'd get lost in the TV thread. I had read some months ago about the "condition" that Chuck is dealing with... It's definitely a thing. In fact there's a town in West Virginia where a super high powered satellite array is located, and they have a created a zone where they allow very few electronic devices so that they don't interfere with the equipment.

Well, because of this zone, people with the sensitivity portrayed by Chuck have flocked from all over the world to this town. It has created some very odd and tense situations with the locals. This is a long read, but it's kind of fascinating: http://www.slate.com/articles/technolog ... ingle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I drove through this place with my family on the way to a ski resort (Snowshoe), not really knowing much of the back story. You are in and out in under 5 minutes. But it still feels weird when your cell phone and car radio go completely silent on you like that.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:18 am

I'm not going to give a legally uninformed opinion on the issue of probable cause. But in real life, it becomes unjust because cops routinely lie about the facts that led to their judgement of probable cause. If cops actually followed the established parameters of the law, there would be few unjust busting down of doors, i betcha.

bapo! · Post by **bapo!** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:23 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:And I'm glad you started this thread. I wanted to post something relevant, but thought it'd get lost in the TV thread

Let this be a lesson to all of you!

I had zero expectations going in. Maybe I was afraid that it wouldn't be good, so I just didn't think about it, didn't read any previews, etc. I didn't even watch the first couple of episodes until a few days after they aired. But this is a very strong show.

I don't watch much television, but I've been watching more lately. I needed a new show to add to my 'Girls'/'Mad Men'/'Total Divas' rotation, and I was hoping that this would be it. I absolutely love it so far.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:39 am

nonlinear, that is excellent. I hadn't looked up 'allergic to electricity' in my medical book yet.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:12 pm

howard wrote:nonlinear, that is excellent. I hadn't looked up 'allergic to electricity' in my medical book yet.

When I saw the blanket, I knew exactly what was going on because of that article. And while those folks tend to not watch a lot of TV, the portrayal given by the writers/Chuck would incense them, I'm sure. Their biggest issue, by far, is that no one really believes it's a real condition. So... yeah.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:58 pm

howard wrote:nonlinear, that is excellent. I hadn't looked up 'allergic to electricity' in my medical book yet.

Was electricity understood when your text books were written? BOOM! I have passed up too much low hanging fruit lately, had to jump on one.

Cops: It could have been hours before they arrived, and I assumed the call was about the crazy erratic stumbling of the freak in tinfoil blanket more than the newspaper. Cops looking in through the window is regular procedure. Thanks to the "Plain View Doctrine," police don't need a search warrant if they see evidence of a crime "in plain view" from a place they are legally allowed to be in. As we all know, the Supreme Court in Horton v. California modified Hicks v. Arizona to extend "plain view" from inadvertently seeing evidence of criminal activity to allow police to actively look for evidence. Mere formality, really, because "oops, I saw it on accident" is easy for a cop to learn.*

-Long story short, I think that scene is actually extremely believable and would very likely be upheld by a court. Stockpile of camping propane tanks, ripped out circuits to ensure no sparks, weird dude who never leaves the house and refuses to speak with the police while citing the law? I think this is realistic. Nothing pisses off a cop more than citing your rights and preventing him from doing what he wants.

To BSF, cops are allowed to do this because of the societal benefit for allowing them to intervene to prevent a crime they witness. If the cops saw a crime or evidence of a crime then had to go get a search warrant, the crime is completed or evidence destroyed before they get back.

*Criminal Procedure and 4th Amendment Const Law were 2 of the few law school classes I enjoyed, so I am going to nerd out for a minute. The development and progression of 4th Amendment search issues gives me the thickening. My first year Moot Court case was an appeal on a case where the police used an infrared camera from the street to detect heat lamps from a pot growing operation inside the house. The issue was whether detecting heat patterns inside of a house constituted a search. I was surprised when 2 years later, in the real case mine was based on, the Supreme Court ultimately decided this was an illegal search. I argued that the heat signature leaving the home is equivalent to allowing dog's to sniff search without a warrant, as the odor is considered to be outside of the property (car, luggage, whatever), or allowing police to search garbage cans without a warrant, because there is no expectation of privacy as you expect someone could go through your garbage.

The interesting part of the decision in this case (Kyllo v. US), is that the Court hinged the decision on the fact that the infrared camera was not readily available to the public (but a trained drug-sniffing police dog is?), so it constituted a search. Now that you can buy an infrared camera at Home Depot for $50, I think the police win a similar case.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:09 pm

The Sybian wrote:Nothing pisses off a cop more than citing your rights and preventing him from doing what he wants.

As The Clash taught us. (with guitars!)

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The Sybian wrote:To BSF, cops are allowed to do this because of the societal benefit for allowing them to intervene to prevent a crime they witness.

Because this happens so often. Seriously, what percentage of the time do cops show up after the crime is finished? 99% ? 99.9% ? 99.999% ?

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:06 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:
howard wrote:nonlinear, that is excellent. I hadn't looked up 'allergic to electricity' in my medical book yet.

When I saw the blanket, I knew exactly what was going on because of that article. And while those folks tend to not watch a lot of TV, the portrayal given by the writers/Chuck would incense them, I'm sure. Their biggest issue, by far, is that no one really believes it's a real condition. So... yeah.

Here is another story about the same town from the Washingtonian.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:10 pm

you know what, that's the better of the two... good pull Dsafe

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:12 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:you know what, that's the better of the two... good pull Dsafe

I have been trucking through longform.org for a couple years and read it there in the last month or so. I clicked on the link you posted, thinking it was the one I had read and, when it turned out to be a different one, I figured the least I could do is dig up that one.

bapo! · Post by **bapo!** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:24 pm

I watched the most recent episode today. I continue to be impressed.

It says a lot about the show that the title character is barely there, is only used for a few minutes to advance somebody else's storyline, but that this was still a great episode. I know that the risk factor isn't as great as it would normally be because the Mike Ehrmantraut character's popularity with 'Breaking Bad' fans is well-established. But still. To do an episode like this so early in a series is unconventional, to say the least.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:53 am

bapo! wrote:I watched the most recent episode today. I continue to be impressed.

It says a lot about the show that the title character is barely there, is only used for a few minutes to advance somebody else's storyline, but that this was still a great episode. I know that the risk factor isn't as great as it would normally be because the Mike Ehrmantraut character's popularity with 'Breaking Bad' fans is well-established. But still. To do an episode like this so early in a series is unconventional, to say the least.

And good lord, was it a fantastic episode. I was in tears at the end, the writing and acting were that powerful.

This show is developing so nicely. Gilligan and his crew are masters at making even the most bizarre or horrible parts of human behaviour make sense.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:30 pm

Great show. Last episode was the best so far. I'm watching BB as I watch BCS.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:34 am

Motto translates as "I shall either find a way or make on."

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:41 am

Another great episode. And the circle closes on for sure how/why Mike Ehrmantrout is doing what he is doing in Breaking Bad. It really is all for the grand-daughter.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:07 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:you know what, that's the better of the two... good pull Dsafe
I have been trucking through longform.org for a couple years and read it there in the last month or so. I clicked on the link you posted, thinking it was the one I had read and, when it turned out to be a different one, I figured the least I could do is dig up that one.

You should start a Longform thread!

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:12 am

Nonlinear FC wrote:
DSafetyGuy wrote:
Nonlinear FC wrote:you know what, that's the better of the two... good pull Dsafe
I have been trucking through longform.org for a couple years and read it there in the last month or so. I clicked on the link you posted, thinking it was the one I had read and, when it turned out to be a different one, I figured the least I could do is dig up that one.

You should start a Longform thread!

I do my best to keep my nose clean, for I am afraid of the Swamp DTP.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:04 pm

Michael McKean can fucking act. They might have to split that emmy between him and Jonathan Banks.

Post by **brian** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:30 am

That's probably the best hour of TV I've seen this year. The entire episode was perfect.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:40 am

"…like a chimp with a machine gun."

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:52 pm

Saw it last night. Epic. Could barely breathe during the scene between McKean and Odenkirk. Just phenomenal.

Also, any episode that has Mike being Mike is as good as it gets.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:51 pm

…and that is what's called a 'Chicago sun roof'.

ETA:

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:50 pm

tennbengal wrote:Another great episode. And the circle closes on for sure how/why Mike Ehrmantrout is doing what he is doing in Breaking Bad. It really is all for the grand-daughter.

The development of Mike is probably the best part of the show, but Banks has just aged too much to play the roll. Looking at him and imaging him 10 years down the road doing what he does in BB is a bit much. Hell, he looks too old in BCS to be doing much more than sitting in a ticket booth then on a ratty old cloth with a knitted Afghan on his lap.

howard · Post by **howard** » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:59 pm

Odenkirk's aged appearance stretches my suspension of disbelief as well. Not just in the flashbacks to the prime of Slippin' Jimmy.

OTOH, Rhea Seahorn looks just the right age for me. See, I'm trying to trend upward in age.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:16 am

As this week's episode wound down, I found myself feeling that something bad will happen to Kim in a future season, simply because she is the one person in ABQ who truly cares about him. Not a falling out with Jimmy and not necessarily something overt against her, but maybe a car accident or something else that is just one of those things that happens.

bfj · Post by **bfj** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:04 pm

Anybody keeping up with Jimmy this season.

Squat Cobbler anyone.

I like the new season so far. Good acting and writing on this show.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:16 pm

Our discussion slipped over to the television thread. I forgot this thread was here. I am in love with Kim Wexler. I want her sitting cross-legged on my bed, wearing an American Samoa Law School sweatshirt (Go Land Crabs!), eating pie (banana creme.)

But Kim is gonna take some next episode.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:48 pm

Who do you guys think Varga wants Mike to take out? We know it's not Tuco, right?

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:08 pm

howard wrote:Our discussion slipped over to the television thread. I forgot this thread was here. I am in love with Kim Wexler. I want her sitting cross-legged on my bed, wearing an American Samoa Law School sweatshirt (Go Land Crabs!), eating pie (banana creme.)

But Kim is gonna take some next episode.

About a decade ago I was eating lunch in the Whole Foods in downtown Portland and ended up chatting to this rather attractive actress who was just visiting from LA for the weekend. I wasn't at all shell-shocked because she told me everything she had been in/was working on and it all sounded like shite to me (some sit-com about Brook Shields I think). Got her number and called her up later but couldn't get her out for a drink. She was super friendly though and wanted to keep in touch, so we chatted a few times after she went back to LA. Anyway, she had written her number down on a bookmark that I used for years, so her name was etched into my head.... Cued up Saul for the first time the other night and boom, there she was.

/anti-climactic

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:06 pm

Jerloma wrote:Who do you guys think Varga wants Mike to take out? We know it's not Tuco, right?

Or it was and he failed.

I like to think Rhea Seahorn is nice and personable in real life, that's pretty cool.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:12 pm

howard wrote:
Jerloma wrote:Who do you guys think Varga wants Mike to take out? We know it's not Tuco, right?
Or it was and he failed.

Come on, now.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:46 pm

Wexler was on Talking Saul or whatever the aftershow is called after the season opener. I know you can't always judge by those interviews, but man she came off as down to earth and likeable.

I love how they keep having Slippin' Jimmy creep into his character, only to have her rein him back in... Though, obviously this week he has jumped off some sort of cliff. I guess there's a chance that the results will trump the anger of the partners, but, man... Seems like he done fucked hisself.

I wonder if whatever Ermentrout (no idea how to sp.) is about to mixed up in syncs up with Jimmy this season, or if they keep on with their parallel descents for awhile longer. Kind of hope it's the latter.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:56 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:... Seems like he done fucked hisself.

This really pissed me off, because what he did was so fucking stupid. The risk/reward is incredibly unbalanced, just stupid and irresponsible. And he knew it was wrong; why did he walk over to Ed Begley Jr's office in the first place, before turning back to his own desk? The blowback upon Kim just makes me more angry.

Between this jackass move by Jimmy, and Michelle telling Brett about what (well, who) she did in Sacramento on Togetherness, I haven't yelled at the TV set this much, (not during a sporting event category), since they brought Glenn back to life on the zombie show.

Post by **brian** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:57 pm

howard wrote:Between this jackass move by Jimmy, and Michelle telling Brett about what (well, who) she did in Sacramento on Togetherness, I haven't yelled at the TV set this much, (not during a sporting event category), since they brought Glenn back to life on the zombie show.

Way to reinforce a stereotype, Doc.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:29 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:I love how they keep having Slippin' Jimmy creep into his character, only to have her rein him back in... Though, obviously this week he has jumped off some sort of cliff. I guess there's a chance that the results will trump the anger of the partners, but, man... Seems like he done fucked hisself.

Kim and Chuck are in a battle over Jimmy. Kim wants to save him, Chuck wants to drive him crazy enough to burn everything down because he doesn't feel his brother is a real lawyer.

howard wrote:This really pissed me off, because what he did was so fucking stupid. The risk/reward is incredibly unbalanced, just stupid and irresponsible. And he knew it was wrong; why did he walk over to Ed Begley Jr's office in the first place, before turning back to his own desk? The blowback upon Kim just makes me more angry.

Of course what he did was stupid. And he knew the commercial would have been shot down, which is why he turned back to his office and sent the tape off, unapproved.

He had already solicited clients (and Chuck put the screws to him in the meeting - see above). Jimmy wants to get more clients to prove his value to the firm (and help them win the case). He doesn't care about how he gets the clients because getting the clients/helping them/helping the firm/proving his worth is his bottom line. And, frankly, the reason why he wants to look good/help the firm is that is his direct line to Kim.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:33 pm

Nice. But it's also about Chuck - either to spite him or prove him wrong. As you kind of alluded to, frankly.

howard · Post by **howard** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:30 pm

brian wrote:
howard wrote:I haven't yelled at the TV set this much, (not during a sporting event category), since they brought Glenn back to life on the zombie show.
Way to reinforce a stereotype, Doc.

It's not like I watch these shows in a public movie theater. (But I probably woke up some sleeping kids in my building when Curry hit that shot the other night.)