AFC Championship - Pats/Colts

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:01 am

Jerloma wrote:I think eventually, you just have to take Occam's razor to this bitch. As Hume famously said, "What's more likely...that the laws of nature would suspend themselves so that a human being could conceive via parthenogenesis or a that Jewish minx would tell a lie?"

Well, what's more likely...that a set of balls would deflate 2 psi while another set of balls didn't under the same atmospheric conditions or that a quarterback with tiny, girl hands would tell a lie and the most Machiavellian fan base in sports would collectively decide that the league is conspiring against them?

Occam hated the Pats and you know it.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:41 am

Pruitt wrote:
Jerloma wrote:I think eventually, you just have to take Occam's razor to this bitch. As Hume famously said, "What's more likely...that the laws of nature would suspend themselves so that a human being could conceive via parthenogenesis or a that Jewish minx would tell a lie?"

Well, what's more likely...that a set of balls would deflate 2 psi while another set of balls didn't under the same atmospheric conditions or that a quarterback with tiny, girl hands would tell a lie and the most Machiavellian fan base in sports would collectively decide that the league is conspiring against them?
Occam hated the Pats and you know it.

The thing is that Pats fans probably think they really are applying Occam's razor. They just start from the premise that Belichick is infallible, and that ends up skewing the analysis a bit.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:20 pm

See, that's not even the complete Occam's Razor scenario.

It also has to involve the refs not doing a thorough enough job with the paper trail and allowing reasonable doubt to happen in the first place. If a rule that is so important to the integrity of the game is completely dismissed by the officials who have to uphold it, then maybe there needs to be a more attentive job during the screening of footballs before the game. And maybe teams shouldn't have access to game balls until the start time.

I honestly feel there are a lot of gray area, 5-to-9-miles-over-the-speed-limit-isn't-speeding type rules that are broken (or bent) by all teams -- obviously the Patriots included. For Brady, it was a slight decrease in football PSI. For A. A. Ron Rod Gers, it's a slight increase. For San Diego receivers, it's stick um on their gloves. Etc. So, someone gets pissy and plays tattletale. Then the Patriots get caught up -- again -- because someone has to tattle on them -- again. I've been in professional settings where the attitude Guy A has towards Guy B spells the downfall to Guy B. Something innocuous is made into a scandal and blammo we have drama over nothing. Then the ensuing reaction of a pissed Guy B becomes the story. There is literally no pause for emotion removal and fact finding. It's a jump to a severe punishment. And when it's all over, we jus' talkin' 'bout practice, man.

You really think if Brady copped to this infraction it would have been handled by a penalty -- $25,000 by what I've read -- commensurate with the violation? In light of the turmoil and bullshit that has gone on this season? I forget where I read it, but Goodell only seems to react when fans and media get outraged and then he has to clean the mess up with an overreaction. Then his leadership is questioned and cue the 24/7 news media wash cycle.

Well, nope. You don't cop to shit. Not when the burden of proof is on the league to positively identify a needle going into a ballstack. You just play the game former Marine Shaggy taught you to play. It wasn't me.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:52 pm

Where's that burden of proof determination from? Do you need to see Sosa corking the bat or is the corked bat making its way into the crime?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:55 pm

If you say with definitive compulsion that a specific person committed a specific act, then you better be able to prove it.

Is it that hard to fucking deduce? Seriously? You cannot under any circumstance make a leap that "balls are underinflated" to "Brady is the culprit" without FUCKING PROOF.

Sometimes I forget you exist on this board exclusively to troll people and to take things out of context.

Edit: fixed words.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:09 pm

Again, did MLB have to prove Sosa corked the bat himself or instructed someone to cork it or was possession the crime?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:54 pm

Was Sammy Sosa's fault in just using the corked bat? Or the willful intent to cheat? He said it was an honest mistake to use the corked one. From this article, he had 76 bats get scanned and all came back clean. The rule in baseball specifically states immediate ejection, and the standard 8 game suspension was added onto it -- it was appealed and reduced to 7. The thing is here, he has to get a corked bat from an outside agency/person whatever. Having that bat anywhere in the vicinity of a game already proves to a degree that he could use it to cheat. And choosing a specific 1 out of 76 looks fishy.

So if the issue is simply using the underinflated ball, then fine Tom Brady $25,000 and move the fuck on. Because that's all that can happen according to NFL guidelines. Not some bullshit draft pick loss, millions of dollars in fines, and game suspensions. Now, prove the willful intent to cheat. Did he tell the equipment manager to let some air out? Maybe, maybe not. Really all it proves is that 12.5-13.5 is a guideline for standard inflation and not some be all end all for game integrity. Otherwise, "immediate ejection" and stiffer standard penalties would apply.

Thanks for making me compare apples to doughnuts in a trivial game of "Trollaware Knows Everything, So Fuck You." I'm off to bed. It's late.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:16 pm

If it wasn't Peyton and Hernandez, I'm thinking it's the Patriots' center. There's no doubt a lot of resentment re: Tom Brady. So many with the motive to set him up.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:19 pm

Goodnight, Johnnie. Sweet dreams, maybe of Belichick giving you a big thank you hug for taking up the fight so loyally.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:52 am

can't prove that Ben Roethlisberger raped anybody and he got 4 games. Man this fanbase is awesome.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:54 am

None of the above was trolling. Go pats! Denver cheated once too you know.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:51 am

"Holding, 76 on the offense."

"THESE REFS AH SO BIASED CAN THEY PROVE HE MEANT TO HOLD THAT KID??? NO WAY ANY TEAM BUT THE PATS GET A PENALTY LIKE THAT!!!"

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:06 am

People on the Internet don't need any sort of proof to think that something was up. The fuck, am I going to personally suspend tom brady? I have no proof joe Paterno knew kids were being raped. But I sure as hell think he knew something was up.

Even funnier is Seattle fans unable to deal with another team dealing with this "adversity" so they insist that the nfl is targeting 30 year old child Marshawn lynch by enforcing long existing rules.

rass · Post by **rass** » Wed May 06, 2015 12:23 pm

For the reasons described in this Report, and after a comprehensive investigation, we have concluded that, in connection with the AFC Championship Game, it is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules,” Wells concluded. “In particular, we have concluded that it is more probable than not that Jim McNally [the Officials Locker Room attendant for the Patriots] and John Jastremski [an equipment assistant for the Patriots] participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots game balls after the balls were examined by the referee.

“Based on the evidence, it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady [the quarterback for the Patriots] was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls.”

via PFT

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed May 06, 2015 12:44 pm

Page 95 of the report is the best. One of the equipment guys texting his mom about a ball that Brady signed.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Wed May 06, 2015 12:51 pm

Oh snap!

rass · Post by **rass** » Wed May 06, 2015 12:52 pm

Ryan wrote:Page 95 of the report is the best. One of the equipment guys texting his mom about a ball that Brady signed.

Game balls aren't really game balls?

Post by **brian** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:08 pm

So what happened about all of the Pats fans on Twitter who have been talking about how the Pats were going to be exonerated?

Hope Malcom Brown pans out, because he's the last Pats first-rounder for awhile.

Post by **brian** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:11 pm

The best tweet by FAR in response to this from Kevin Clark of the Wall St. Journal:

I think it took Ted Wells 103 days to actually believe adults sent those texts to each other. Explains the wait.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:18 pm

Can't wait to see johhny's string of Facebook memes about this...

Post by **Sabo** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:19 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:Can't wait to see johhny's string of Facebook memes about this...

I'm going to guess the fact the texts mention overinflating the balls will be a common theme ...

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:22 pm

brian wrote:So what happened about all of the Pats fans on Twitter who have been talking about how the Pats were going to be exonerated?

Hope Malcom Brown pans out, because he's the last Pats first-rounder for awhile.

I can't wait to see Jimmy Garropolo starting in the Thursday night game to open the season! Pretty funny that Brady and LeVeon Bell are probably both going to be suspended for that one.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:37 pm

So the Bills will get the Pats coming off a 10 day rest and with Brady starting for the first time.

If I was a betting man, I'd be all over that one.

Post by **brian** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:40 pm

Pruitt wrote:So the Bills will get the Pats coming off a 10 day rest and with Brady starting for the first time.

If I was a betting man, I'd be all over that one.

If Brady gets suspended (which certainly looks likely), he's looking at something more like 4 games. Maybe even 8.

Hope Jimmy Grapes is as good as Pats fans seem to think he is. Might be getting a cruel look into the future of the post-Brady Patriots sooner than we thought.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:41 pm

brian wrote:
Pruitt wrote:So the Bills will get the Pats coming off a 10 day rest and with Brady starting for the first time.

If I was a betting man, I'd be all over that one.
If Brady gets suspended (which certainly looks likely), he's looking at something more like 4 games. Maybe even 8.

Hope Jimmy Grapes is as good as Pats fans seem to think he is. Might be getting a cruel look into the future of the post-Brady Patriots sooner than we thought.

Your mouth to God's ear!

Super Bowl baby!!

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:43 pm

brian wrote:
Pruitt wrote:So the Bills will get the Pats coming off a 10 day rest and with Brady starting for the first time.

If I was a betting man, I'd be all over that one.
If Brady gets suspended (which certainly looks likely), he's looking at something more like 4 games. Maybe even 8.

No fucking way.

Post by **brian** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:49 pm

After suspending Hardy, Rice and Peterson for off-field stuff for essentially a full season (and I obviously don't condone what they did), how idiotic would it look to give Brady a one-game suspension for something that actually affected an competitive advantage?

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:51 pm

I think they are using terms like "generally aware" and "more probable than not" for a reason.

Some guy on my Facebook is demanding to know how much the NFL paid for the investigation.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:53 pm

Hey, where's Rush?

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:55 pm

brian wrote:After suspending Hardy, Rice and Peterson for off-field stuff for essentially a full season (and I obviously don't condone what they did), how idiotic would it look to give Brady a one-game suspension for something that actually affected an competitive advantage?

Where's that part of the report?

Post by **brian** » Wed May 06, 2015 1:58 pm

Ryan wrote:
brian wrote:After suspending Hardy, Rice and Peterson for off-field stuff for essentially a full season (and I obviously don't condone what they did), how idiotic would it look to give Brady a one-game suspension for something that actually affected an competitive advantage?
Where's that part of the report?

If it didn't then why did Brady do it? Let's get something straight -- if the NFL doesn't come down on Brady and the Pats to some degree here, then Sheriff Goodell really is in the tank for his buddy Kraft and there's not much point worrying about the Patriots ever getting disciplined for anything. Josh Gordon gets suspended a season for having one beer and Brady skates for ACTUALLY FUCKING CHEATING? What the fuck is the point of watching the NFL then?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed May 06, 2015 2:03 pm

DaveInSeattle wrote:Can't wait to see johhny's string of Facebook memes about this...

However many it takes for you to complain about it on here. And since I'm past this nonsense and over it, zero works for me.

Should you just do yourself the favor and unfriend me or should I? Seriously dude, quit your fucking crying.

If there's anything more than a fine for something like this I'll be surprised. Nothing like suspending the defending Super Bowl MVP for the opening game of the golden NFL season for deflated footballs. Because integrity!

If only the Ray Rice situation was handled in such a thorough fashion...

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed May 06, 2015 2:06 pm

brian wrote:
Ryan wrote:
brian wrote:After suspending Hardy, Rice and Peterson for off-field stuff for essentially a full season (and I obviously don't condone what they did), how idiotic would it look to give Brady a one-game suspension for something that actually affected an competitive advantage?
Where's that part of the report?
If it didn't then why did Brady do it? Let's get something straight -- if the NFL doesn't come down on Brady and the Pats to some degree here, then Sheriff Goodell really is in the tank for his buddy Kraft and there's not much point worrying about the Patriots ever getting disciplined for anything. Josh Gordon gets suspended a season for having one beer and Brady skates for ACTUALLY FUCKING CHEATING? What the fuck is the point of watching the NFL then?

My point is that, in the sentencing phase, there are plenty of variables here beyond, "It's in the rules and they didn't follow". How much does it help? Conflicting opinions on that from what I've seen. Does pretty much every quarterback/team do it to some degree? Same. Were they warned on prior occasions? Does it tarnish the sh..I can't even say it.

If every quarterback in the world knowingly does this, then I can't look at Brady's seeming middle-finger to the rulebook in the same way as if this is something that they all know never to try and get away with.

He shouldn't have cheated - end of story. The punishment could really go either way, since it's Goodell and freaking Troy Vincent we're talking about, but I don't think it's cut and dry just based on the report.

Post by **brian** » Wed May 06, 2015 2:08 pm

OK, that's all fair. And your point about if other teams do it is understood, but Brady was the one who got caught. It's no (well, little) different from a pitcher who doctors a baseball. If you concede that X percent of pitchers do it, still only the one or two a year or whatever who get caught face punishment. It doesn't make it any more "right".

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed May 06, 2015 2:11 pm

brian wrote:OK, that's all fair. And your point about if other teams do it is understood, but Brady was the one who got caught. It's no (well, little) different from a pitcher who doctors a baseball. If you concede that X percent of pitchers do it, still only the one or two a year or whatever who get caught face punishment. It doesn't make it any more "right".

If Brady had institutional knowledge of prior instances of referees kicking quarterbacks off the field for throwing a deflated football, that analogy would work for me.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Wed May 06, 2015 2:30 pm

Rush2112 wrote:If there is malfeasance I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong, but everyone accusing and saying that there needs to be 75 draft picks taken, Bill needs to be fired, etc. is idiotic. There hasn't been any "official" word aside from Head Coach NEP news conference, everything has been "sources." Rather than jump to conclusions it'd be best to wait to see what the NFL has to say, which I hear is tomorrow, at least that's the reasoning the Brady's presser was moved up to 4ish EST time.

SportsDoc · Post by **SportsDoc** » Wed May 06, 2015 2:31 pm

Jerloma wrote:
brian wrote:
Pruitt wrote:So the Bills will get the Pats coming off a 10 day rest and with Brady starting for the first time.

If I was a betting man, I'd be all over that one.
If Brady gets suspended (which certainly looks likely), he's looking at something more like 4 games. Maybe even 8.
No fucking way.

2 games Max.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Wed May 06, 2015 2:43 pm

"Nothing like suspending the NFL MVP for cheating at football!"

You guys can't be serious. I don't care if it actually provides an advantage according to a bunch of NFL QBs - this one did it because he did think it provided him an advantage and it's against the rules.

The advantage of corking a bat is also debated but if you do it you're cheating.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Wed May 06, 2015 2:44 pm

If Ray Rice's wife were on the other team and he punched her in an actual football game he would have been suspended immediately. Keep comparing NFL suspensions for on-field transgressions to NFL suspensions for off-field transgressions.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Wed May 06, 2015 2:48 pm

I don't even care if they suspend him or not, but I gotta go to FB to see some other Bostonians spitting straight fiery truth