Credit Card Fraud

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:18 am

Got a text and e-mail from my credit card company this morning. A charge at a Macy's East PA. Google didn't help me figure out what store, as there are several in East XXXX PA, and one in the East Mall in Harrisburg. I doubt they can do anything. A fraud dept person is supposed to call me before 9:00 pm, and the auto-response said the card is frozen. I'll have to dispute the 2 charges at vending machines in the Bronx this morning. I am really curious to find out what set off the suspicious transaction alert.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:49 am

This happens all the time in Ft. Lauderdale/Miami. The credit card company will remove the charges.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:06 pm

Yeah, don't even sweat. This has happened like 5 times to me. Never had to do anything other than tell the fraud dept which charges weren't mine.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:09 pm

Happened to my wife a week ago. Fraud department cleared it up and sent new cards.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:12 pm

I was told that most of the time the card data is stolen at gas stations - one of the times it happened I had to file a police report. It's so commonplace now that I doubt anyone still requires that.

Post by **Sabo** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:15 pm

The Sybian wrote:Got a text and e-mail from my credit card company this morning. A charge at a Macy's East PA. Google didn't help me figure out what store, as there are several in East XXXX PA, and one in the East Mall in Harrisburg. I doubt they can do anything. A fraud dept person is supposed to call me before 9:00 pm, and the auto-response said the card is frozen. I'll have to dispute the 2 charges at vending machines in the Bronx this morning. I am really curious to find out what set off the suspicious transaction alert.

Are you sure you have frog protection for your cards?

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:31 pm

I'm not too worried. The total of the two pending charges is $6.50. The $174.00 dollar Macy's charge doesn't even show as pending. I still want to know the charge was flagged, and how they used my number in a vending machine. Are they able to create a magnetic strip with my card number?

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:33 pm

The Sybian wrote:I'm not too worried. The total of the two pending charges is $6.50. The $174.00 dollar Macy's charge doesn't even show as pending. I still want to know the charge was flagged, and how they used my number in a vending machine. Are they able to create a magnetic strip with my card number?

Probably. These people are professionals. I've also heard that they can get your information and actually imprint it onto a card. Like they'll put things in the gas station scanners to get the info. This could be wild-assed wrong info but for some reason it's in my head.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:34 pm

The Sybian wrote:I'm not too worried. The total of the two pending charges is $6.50. The $174.00 dollar Macy's charge doesn't even show as pending. I still want to know the charge was flagged, and how they used my number in a vending machine. Are they able to create a magnetic strip with my card number?

Did you use the card otherwise that day? If you have a charge in New Jersey and then 10 minutes later a charge in Harrisburg, they probably think something is up. Or if your card gets declined a few times in a row.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:59 pm

Gunpowder wrote:
The Sybian wrote:I'm not too worried. The total of the two pending charges is $6.50. The $174.00 dollar Macy's charge doesn't even show as pending. I still want to know the charge was flagged, and how they used my number in a vending machine. Are they able to create a magnetic strip with my card number?
Probably. These people are professionals. I've also heard that they can get your information and actually imprint it onto a card. Like they'll put things in the gas station scanners to get the info. This could be wild-assed wrong info but for some reason it's in my head.

I saw a video of how this is done at ATMs. They put a scanner over the ATM card insert slot that reads the number and somehow gets the PIN.

ETA: Spoke with Fraud Dept., turns out a vending machine purchase followed by a large transaction sets of the alert. Makes a lot of sense, try the fake card with a machine before a human cashier.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:07 pm

This seems to happen to my wife a lot. She buys a lot online from catalogue companies, so that may be a factor.

A recent phone call to her:
Fraud analyst: "...Since I'm speaking to you at your home land-line, I'm guessing that you didn't authorize the person who bought a case of Dom Perignon champagne this morning under your name in Johannesburg, South Africa?"
Wife: "Umm... no..."

Post by **brian** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:08 pm

I was just going to say, that's textbook. Had it happen to me a couple of times. They try a $1 or $2 charge and then if that goes through will go for something bigger. But those will get automatically flagged now by most credit card companies.

travzilla · Post by **travzilla** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:55 pm

Shit, this sounds like something you all just deal with all the time? What's the holdup with switching over to chip technology like the rest of the world (rhetorical question, being like the rest of the world is the problem). The cost to replace every card and terminal to chip is huge, but the banks and insurance companies must just be paying billions and billions refunding these fraud claims.

I work at a small credit union, and about 5 years ago card skimming was out of control. Part of my job is to deal with these compromised cards, issue refunds, etc. Since madatory chip technology was instituted in the last few years, we've gone from having an incident weekly and hundreds of members effected a year, to maybe a dozen last year. And 90% of the ones that do come up are people using their cards in resort towns in mexico or in the states.

HDO45331 · Post by **HDO45331** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:21 am

This also happens at bars and restaurants, when the server takes your card to run it through the system. They can write down all the information including the CVC (?) number on the back.

A couple of years ago, there was a charge on my discover card that I questioned. This expended to a purchase of a computer, online. I never found out who did this, but they were from Oklahoma. All charges were reversed, and they issued a new card.

Supposedly, there is technology where someone close to an ATM can get a person's information when the card is used.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:04 am

HDO45331 wrote:This also happens at bars and restaurants, when the server takes your card to run it through the system. They can write down all the information including the CVC (?) number on the back.

A couple of years ago, there was a charge on my discover card that I questioned. This expended to a purchase of a computer, online. I never found out who did this, but they were from Oklahoma. All charges were reversed, and they issued a new card.

Supposedly, there is technology where someone close to an ATM can get a person's information when the card is used.

That's how my wife's card was stolen.

And trav, it's not like the credit card companies are just being belevolent and protecting you. They go to the merchant and say sorry, we aren't paying this, it was fraud, you didn't check an ID or otherwise ensure it was the right person. There is probably some settlement process, but banks don't get to be banks by giving away money.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:19 am

A_B wrote:
HDO45331 wrote:This also happens at bars and restaurants, when the server takes your card to run it through the system. They can write down all the information including the CVC (?) number on the back.

A couple of years ago, there was a charge on my discover card that I questioned. This expended to a purchase of a computer, online. I never found out who did this, but they were from Oklahoma. All charges were reversed, and they issued a new card.

Supposedly, there is technology where someone close to an ATM can get a person's information when the card is used.
That's how my wife's card was stolen.

And trav, it's not like the credit card companies are just being belevolent and protecting you. They go to the merchant and say sorry, we aren't paying this, it was fraud, you didn't check an ID or otherwise ensure it was the right person. There is probably some settlement process, but banks don't get to be banks by giving away money.

Trav - we are slowly moving toward chips. One of my cards has a chip. It got stolen a few months ago.

Like AB says, these places are supposed to be checking IDs and matching the signatures. Yet I've never signed any of my credit cards.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Gunpowder wrote:
Trav - we are slowly moving toward chips. One of my cards has a chip. It got stolen a few months ago.

Like AB says, these places are supposed to be checking IDs and matching the signatures. Yet I've never signed any of my credit cards.

This card actually is a chip card. No idea what the purpose of the chip is, or how it works.

travzilla · Post by **travzilla** » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:36 pm

The Sybian wrote:
Gunpowder wrote:
Trav - we are slowly moving toward chips. One of my cards has a chip. It got stolen a few months ago.

Like AB says, these places are supposed to be checking IDs and matching the signatures. Yet I've never signed any of my credit cards.
This card actually is a chip card. No idea what the purpose of the chip is, or how it works.

Yeah I guess credit card transactions can easily be proven false and reclaimed from the merchant. What we had up here was primarily debit cards, which I believe are still much more widely used the in the states.

To skim debit cards, a no-goodnik will either place a fake card reader that copies the magnetic strip of the card over an ATM, or swap out a legitimate point-of-sale machine for a fake one either as a customer or employee (fast food drive thrus and gas stations are especially popular). Then they'll use either a camera or wireless device to capture your PIN number. They then sell the copied cards and PINs to organized crime outfits, usually overseas, who will one day go to an ATM and do withdrawals one after another.

The purpose of the chip card is that you cannot copy the chip like you can the magnetic stripe. (Also removes the need for a signature for credit cards, since you have a PIN number instead). The only problem is if merchants don't upgrade their payment technology to chip-compliant and still swipe the card, then the chip is useless. All merchants and cards in Canada had to be chip as of last year.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:58 am

Walmart is the only place down here where I actually use the chip. Europe is huge on chips, yet it screwed me because I either don't have or don't know the PIN on my card. Was lucky I had a debit card in Oslo.

Post by **brian** » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:57 am

The new cards in the US are basically not chip and pin (though they can work like that overseas), but chip and sign.

So in that sense, the only difference is that instead of storing the credit card transaction data, the chip and sign cards (assuming you use them that way and don't just swipe them like "normal") results in the data being scrambled so it can't be stolen. It's much more secure, even if it is not nearly as convenient as the chip and pin (and also not any less safe if someone gets their hands on your card and forges your signature.).

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:26 am

Fuck!

Got a call and email at about 7PM Saturday (technically, the notifications came at 7 but I was out and didn't receive them until about 9) that AMEX had declined a $56 charge at a gas station on Long Island. Called them, verified that I hadn't made that purchase, cancelled the card and they told me to watch my statement for additional charges. At some point last night, three more charges from Saturday night in the LI area popped up, one for a taxi ride and two at a grocery store (the village of Valley Stream, how could they???). The total for all three of those was about $86, just got done disputing them and the credit should be posted within a week.

I get that I got skimmed somewhere, but what I couldn't get a straight answer for was why they flagged the initial $56 charge. They told me they see a lot of fraud from gas stations and convenience stores, but I go to the gas station once a week, and LI isn't so far away if there is any sort of geographical consideration. Plus they let the other three through with no questions. Glad they caught it, but I don't get the logic.

I also should have demanded that they check for cameras or the log for the cab ride and catch these fuckers.

Reading through the thread and references to chipped cards, it's just this past month that I've noticed a lot of stores have started providing the option (requiring?) payment with a new card reader that uses the chip (which my card had). Great timing for my first case of fraud.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:36 am

Our Saturday started with a text notification from Visa - someone was using our card number to charge meals at fast food joints and a trip to a nightclub in Sudbury (small city, 300 miles north of here).

Pain in the ass, but bottom line is that Visa flagged the transactions as Sudbury, Taco Bell and nightclubs have never appeared on our transactions before.

Couple of days while we wait for the new card, but I have to say, I like how quickly they acted. And the advice was (as we have a chip card) to never swipe the card, and to never use it in a small mom and pop sort of store (convenience stores mainly).

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:00 am

Pruitt wrote:Our Saturday started with a text notification from Visa - someone was using our card number to charge meals at fast food joints and a trip to a nightclub in Sudbury (small city, 300 miles north of here).

Pain in the ass, but bottom line is that Visa flagged the transactions as Sudbury, Taco Bell and nightclubs have never appeared on our transactions before.

Couple of days while we wait for the new card, but I have to say, I like how quickly they acted. And the advice was (as we have a chip card) to never swipe the card, and to never use it in a small mom and pop sort of store (convenience stores mainly).

It blows my mind I don't get calls like this. I travel and my territory covers 5.5 states. I've never once received a call for either my work card or my personal card. And that's with charges like "gas in Indianapolis", "Dinner in Madison WI", and "Walgreens in Peoria" within 24 hours of each other sometimes.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:10 am

Reason chip is picking up is very simple,

[quote="chase:]Another Payment Brand ruling is the impending chip liability shift. Once this goes into effect, merchants who have not made the investment in chip-enabled technology may be held financially liable for card-present counterfeit and potentially lost and stolen fraud that could have been prevented with the use of a chip-enabled POS system

Most merchants (petroleum pay–at-pump transactions are excluded at this time) need to support EMV by October 2015
Petroleum pay-at-pump merchants need to support EMV by October 2017
[/quote]

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:34 am

BSF21 wrote:
Pruitt wrote:Our Saturday started with a text notification from Visa - someone was using our card number to charge meals at fast food joints and a trip to a nightclub in Sudbury (small city, 300 miles north of here).

Pain in the ass, but bottom line is that Visa flagged the transactions as Sudbury, Taco Bell and nightclubs have never appeared on our transactions before.

Couple of days while we wait for the new card, but I have to say, I like how quickly they acted. And the advice was (as we have a chip card) to never swipe the card, and to never use it in a small mom and pop sort of store (convenience stores mainly).
It blows my mind I don't get calls like this. I travel and my territory covers 5.5 states. I've never once received a call for either my work card or my personal card. And that's with charges like "gas in Indianapolis", "Dinner in Madison WI", and "Walgreens in Peoria" within 24 hours of each other sometimes.

Maybe our bank just offers good service?

They have advised us to let them know in advance when we will be travelling so they don't suspend the card.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:52 am

BSF21 wrote:
Pruitt wrote:Our Saturday started with a text notification from Visa - someone was using our card number to charge meals at fast food joints and a trip to a nightclub in Sudbury (small city, 300 miles north of here).

Pain in the ass, but bottom line is that Visa flagged the transactions as Sudbury, Taco Bell and nightclubs have never appeared on our transactions before.

Couple of days while we wait for the new card, but I have to say, I like how quickly they acted. And the advice was (as we have a chip card) to never swipe the card, and to never use it in a small mom and pop sort of store (convenience stores mainly).
It blows my mind I don't get calls like this. I travel and my territory covers 5.5 states. I've never once received a call for either my work card or my personal card. And that's with charges like "gas in Indianapolis", "Dinner in Madison WI", and "Walgreens in Peoria" within 24 hours of each other sometimes.

Your past purchase history may be precisely WHY you don't get calls like this. With such a varied range of locations where the card was used, yet presumably no calls to them to say anything was fraud, they likely assume you do a bit of traveling and thus different ZIP codes on your activity isn't "out of the ordinary".

Mister D's card would probably call him if he went to the McDonald's next to his house.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:27 am

This got me curious. Closest one is over 3 miles away.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:34 am

mister d wrote:This got me curious. Closest one is over 3 miles away.

I have four within that radius, and a fifth isn't far outside.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:33 pm

A_B wrote:
mister d wrote:This got me curious. Closest one is over 3 miles away.
I have four within that radius, and a fifth isn't far outside.

And Mr. D is in a fairly densely populated area.

Post by **Shirley** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:25 pm

No human is making those decisions about why a charge is considered possibly fraudulent. In fact, in all likelihood, no human programmed the algorithm either. They consider a shitload of variables (location, place, amount, past history, recent purchases, etc) and let the fancy algorithms figure things out. Probably using some sort of neural net AI that's trained on an every-updating database of billions (trillions?) of legit and known fraudulent purchases. It amazes me how good of a job that they do.

Steve of phpBB · Post by **Steve of phpBB** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:54 pm

Shirley wrote:No human is making those decisions about why a charge is considered possibly fraudulent. In fact, in all likelihood, no human programmed the algorithm either. They consider a shitload of variables (location, place, amount, past history, recent purchases, etc) and let the fancy algorithms figure things out. Probably using some sort of neural net AI that's trained on an every-updating database of billions (trillions?) of legit and known fraudulent purchases. It amazes me how good of a job that they do.

Plus, at any given minute, they know exactly where you are, who you are talking to, and what you are saying. So they know that you didn't get gas at the station on the corner at 2:20 pm, because they know you were at your girlfriend's having a nooner.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:47 pm

And of course, your 'girl friend' is actually their agent, working you to see what you know about anti-state activities and especially on-line conspiracies. Once they've got that, they'll use the girl friend angle to blackmail you into working for them. The next girl friend will be the same. And of course, the wife.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:51 pm

I got a text message within seconds of making a second credit card purchase at Citi Field. They must know I don't even follow baseball.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:34 pm

Close enough ... how concerned would you be if you found out the address and phone number on your checking account had been changed ... in mid-2018? I guess I need to do a full credit check and all that, but it feels more weird than concerning until someone tells me why its actually really bad.

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:00 pm

So, we got some forms from the state today that seem to indicate that someone fraudulently applied for unemployment benefits in my wife’s name. Seems to be common enough during the pandemic but I’m struggling to understand why?

She’s going to talk to her employer on Monday. I found a nice link from Rutgers explaining to their employees how to handle it, and I guess we’re going to follow that, and she intends to freeze her credit (or may have done so by the time I finish this). Happen to anyone else?

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:27 pm

Hmm. Yesterday I got a text message from the state reminding me to apply for my weekly benefits and I haven't collected UI in 18 months. Reported it.

Post by **brian** » Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:25 pm

rass wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:00 pm So, we got some forms from the state today that seem to indicate that someone fraudulently applied for unemployment benefits in my wife’s name. Seems to be common enough during the pandemic but I’m struggling to understand why?

She’s going to talk to her employer on Monday. I found a nice link from Rutgers explaining to their employees how to handle it, and I guess we’re going to follow that, and she intends to freeze her credit (or may have done so by the time I finish this). Happen to anyone else?

Happened twice to me the second time fucking me from actually getting unemployment I’m entitled to. Apparently anyone can claim unemployment with almost no paperwork but actually fixing it with all the correct paperwork requires an act of fucking Congress.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:06 am

Why I didn’t get is the “why”?

My wife got another letter today confirming her request to switch to direct deposit of her benefits. Aha! So how many of these do you have to plow through to get one that gets past the employer and employee and makes money?

Post by **brian** » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:24 am

rass wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:06 am Why I didn’t get is the “why”?

My wife got another letter today confirming her request to switch to direct deposit of her benefits. Aha! So how many of these do you have to plow through to get one that gets past the employer and employee and makes money?

That's just it though. These guys cast such a wide net that only actually getting money from 2 out of 100 is "profitable". (Theoretically, it's all "profit" but relative to the effort involved.) The popular scam in Vegas was to make a claim on someone and then steal the paperwork/debit card out of their mailbox when it arrives. The benefits start immediately, so by the time the employer checks in with the state, whose employees are beyond overworked they've probably gotten thousands of dollars.