Best Sit-Coms of All Time... Go!

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:26 pm

So, a buddy of mine mentioned he'd stumbled on a "new" favorite show over on Netflix this week... Cheers! He's been raving about it and we've been talking about how great the show is... I even went and dredged up a GQ article on it: http://www.gq.com/story/cheers-oral-history-extended" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyways, that article got me thinking about some of my all-time favorite sit-coms and I'm curious what the finely tuned minds on this board think.

So, Friday activity: Lay 'em out there... A little bit of your rationale would be cool, but not necessary...

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:29 pm

1. Seinfeld
2. Arrested Development

Post by **brian** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:34 pm

P.D.X. wrote:1. Seinfeld
2. Arrested Development

If I had to do a top five (and it was harder than I thought to come up with five) would probably go something like this:

1) Seinfeld
2) Arrested Development
3) The Simpsons
4) Cheers
5) Archer

Post by **Shirley** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:36 pm

1) What's Happening!!

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:43 pm

I don't worship Seinfeld..I realize it was strong but just never my favorite.

1) Arrested Development - Infinitely rewatchable.
2) 30 Rock - Smart and funny and a tremendous case
3)Cheers - Nostalgic, but funny. Really cared about those people.
4) Parks & Rec - Best overall cast and the way that they interacted with one another. The B (and C)arcs always were as good as the A arcs.
t5) It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia - I'm only halfway through the entire run on netflix, but it has as many laugh out loud moments per episodes as anything. May end up higher when I finish.
t5) The Office (edit) - The weaker later years push it down the list.

And I realize most of these are pretty recent, all things told. But I really dig the "smarter" comedies of the aughts over my formative years. I watched Friends, and Seinfeld and Mad About You, but they just don't hold up the way these will, IMO.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:45 pm

Quick list, assuming they all count as sitcoms:

1. The Larry Sanders Show
2. Curb Your Enthusiasm
3. Seinfeld
4. Cheers
5. Archer
6. Futurama

rass · Post by **rass** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:47 pm

Just to throw one out there that hasn't been mentioned yet, The Office (USA! version) probably made me laugh as often and as hard as just about anything. Bonus trend-setting points, too, I think.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:48 pm

Curb and The Office are my clear top 2.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:04 pm

The ones I really loved for awhile

The Office - both USA and Brit
30 Rock
Seinfeld
Arrested Development
Simpsons

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:07 pm

1) Cheers
2) M*A*S*H
3) WKRP
4) Taxi
5) NewsRadio
6) Parks
7) The Office
8) Happy Days/Laverne & Shirley/Mork & Mindy*
9) Community
10) 30 Rock

* I know this is a total cop-out, but I just lump all of those shows together in mind... Though of the 3, I probably loved M&M the most.

There are a bunch of shows that I liked a lot in the beginning, but really grew to hate by the end: Friends and Seinfeld are good examples. I also liked shows like Family Ties but they just took themselves too seriously and I really grew to dislike a number of the characters.

I really need to go watch Arrested Development. I don't know how or why I never got into that, but just going by my friends and now you guys, I'm sure I'd like it.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:24 pm

S-a-n-f-o-r-d. Period.

Especially the handful of episodes written by Richard Pryor.

DaveInSeattle · Post by **DaveInSeattle** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:46 pm

Ken Levine (TV writer...worked on "Cheers", "Mash", "Frazier", among others) had a blog post the other day talking about the greatness of the old Sgt. Bilko show.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:28 pm

1. M.A.S.H.
2. All In The Family
3. I Love Lucy
4. The Honeymooners
5. Phil Silvers/Sgt. Bilko
6. The Simpsons
7. Sanford and Sons
8. Taxi
9. Gilligan's Island
10. The Beverly Hillbillies (greatest theme song ever)
11. Married With Children
12. 30 Rock

My list is limited by having not seen much, if any, of many of the successful sitcoms after around 1975. There are a few I've seen for an episode or two that seemed promising. Always Sunny, Curb, Larry Sanders, Arrested, Office come to mind. Most are painfully, unenduringly bad. Seinfeld, Cheers, Friends, Frasier, Raymond, Scrubs -- these come immediately to mind.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:30 pm

We used to laugh at Sgt. Bilko (the Phil Silvers show) when we were kids, on after school reruns. Along with Hogan's Heroes, McHale's Navy, and Get Smart.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:57 pm

In no particular order, shows I loved at various times in my life...

Seinfeld
Cheers
Father Ted
Barney Miller
Curb Your Enthusiasm
The Office (UK version)
Green Acres
Sgt. Bilko (totally forgot about this one - laughed my head off as a kid... in reruns)
Veep
Simpsons
Larry Sanders Show

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:00 pm

We used to laugh at Sgt. Bilko (the Phil Silvers show) when we were kids, on after school reruns. Along with Hogan's Heroes, McHale's Navy, and Get Smart.

Same here. The last three were great in their day, and just missed my cut. I also liked F Troop and Green Acres. Of course, by modern standards there is more corn in this set of shows than there is in Iowa. So you have to be down with that.

My oldest daughter has plowed her way through the complete collections of some of these shows, and liked them a lot. So their sensibility still seems to hold up a bit.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:18 pm

I liked Green Acres as a kid, but loved it later as a stoner.

It can be positively surreal.

Forgot how gorgeous Eva Gabor was.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:24 pm

I knew subsequent posts would bring up other great shows I would have included if I'd remembered.

The Office (British) would be near the top for me as well. I've only seen a few episodes of the US version but liked them, and keep putting off binge-watching the rest. A very rare example of an adaptation that stays true to the spirit of the source while being original enough to not simply be an imitation.

Cheers I think is the best "conventional" sitcom of all time, in terms of revolving around a single location and using traditional character archetypes and plotlines. It's the Bach of sitcoms--a perfection of everything that came before.

Does anyone have an opinion of how well Seinfeld has aged? As much as I liked it, it seemed to have a very strong sense of "you had to be there" that I suspected future generations might not get. Also, it's much harder to appreciate now how drastically different it was from shows that came before. Basically any modern comedy show that makes a conscious effort to "break the mold" owes a debt to Seinfeld.

Frasier belongs up there too. Surprisingly mature and cerebral for a network show, has probably aged better than any other 90s sitcom.

I like Futurama more than the Simpsons, in large part because I tend to not like the type of people who like the Simpsons (present company excluded).

Mentioned it here before, I watched the first few episodes of Arrested Development and just couldn't get into it. Too self-consciously quirky and broadly acted. I know that a lot of people whose tastes I respect love it, though, so to each his own.

Have heard good things about Parks and Rec but have never watched it because I can't stand Amy Poehler.

I'm not sure what to think about shows like Happy Days or WKRP, which have a lot of fun nostalgia value but aren't really "great" shows like the others.

Forgot one dark horse: Night Court. That show kicked ass and John Laroquette's character was magnificently despicable.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:35 pm

Johnny Carwash wrote:Mentioned it here before, I watched the first few episodes of Arrested Development and just couldn't get into it. Too self-consciously quirky and broadly acted. I know that a lot of people whose tastes I respect love it, though, so to each his own.

Well put.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:44 pm

Feel "Always Sunny" was just a show pandering to the bro market. Has it's moments but mostly I find the humor to just be the low-hanging fruit variety. It's like a less-PC Bud light commercial stretched to 22 mins.

Night Court is a good call for the pre-Seinfeld era.

No Cosby shouts yet?

Fresh Prince always had its charm.

Nonlinear FC · Post by **Nonlinear FC** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:56 pm

Yeah, Carwash, it's hard to even judge shows pre-late 70s against "modern" sitcoms. DC rattled off a bunch and there are a slew of shows that I loved back in the day that just don't hold up, or they only hold up as nostalgic, as you say.

Dick Van Dyke, Mary Tyler Moore Show (which I loooooved), Gilligan, Brady Bunch, Hogan's Heroes. I absolutely loved them at the time, but it's hard to watch these days without cringing a lot.

Speaking of Mary Tyler Moore, Ted Night was groundbreaking in that, for me at least. That guy absolutely killed me.

And while I can't add this to my list, The Carol Burnett Show was probably my favorite show as a kid. They just seemed to be having so much fun up there, and some of the bits just destroyed me. Tim Conway could make Harvey Korman break character at will, and it was awesome every time.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:30 pm

Yeah, all good points. It's really impossible to rate sit-coms, as with so many other things, against each other, as if there were some objective scale. So much comes down to how you rate things like how path-breaking a show was, how much you enjoyed it at the time (even if you were a clueless 12 year old), and whether you watched it with your ex-GF.

My #1, M.A.S.H. gets points for being ground-breaking, dealing with social controversies, well-acted and scripted, and such. But also for being the very favorite of my mother. There were times that she had different episodes tuned in on two TVs at the same time, courtesy of re-runs on the NYC channels. I never see even a flashing second or two of that show, or anyone who was on it, without thinking of her.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:35 pm

Nonlinear FC wrote:Speaking of Mary Tyler Moore, Ted Night was groundbreaking in that, for me at least. That guy absolutely killed me.

Yes to Knight. Though it was a bit too sacharine for my tastes otherwise. I have to admit, that when I moved to NYC in my late 20s for a consulting job, I got off the subway and when I hit the sidewalk, at an intersection I tossed my hat in the air and hummed the theme song. Didn't matter that it was set in Minneapolis.

howard · Post by **howard** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:28 pm

Way too soon to tell, but I think Broad City will have a place on these lists. And on the other end of the spectrum, I loved Sgt. Bilko when I discovered it in college. A decade later realized why my dad laughed so hard at the reruns when I was a little kid.

GoodKarma · Post by **GoodKarma** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:59 pm

1) Cheers - plenty has been said.
2) UK version of the Office - mainstreamed the mockumentary style for Modern Family, Parks & Rec, etc. and for my money better than the U.S. version.
3) South Park - since we're counting animation, I think it's one of smartest comedies of all time but will never get credit because of the network its on and the perceived "filth". It single handedly made Comedy Central.
4) Cosby Show - despite current events, you can't deny its success and I still think it holds up pretty well considering its focus on a family unit/situations. Only downside was it ran about 2 seasons too long.
5) Fraser - I thought it was one of the first "smart" comedies in regards to writing and subtle humor. I remember one episode (can't recall the season or title) where the first 5 minutes or so was Niles dressed as Jesus (from performing in a play) in Frasiers apartment getting into all sorts of physical comedic situations...the entire scene with no dialouge.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:55 pm

Great thread. I refuse to make a list, too many choices, too difficult to rate against each other.

-Night Court is highly underrated or forgotten. Larroquette made Dan Fielding one of the best characters ever

-I think Seinfeld holds up, but may not for younger generations. It became such a fabric of culture, it might be hard to separate that from how well the show holds up on it's own. It is a bit like Pulp Fiction in breaking the mold, but so many shows stretched beyond the wall Seinfeld broke down, it starts to seem cliche.

-Arrested Development was a complete game changer. It took me a couple episodes for it to click. It was so different, it didn't have a chance of gaining widespread popularity. I see it as spawning shows like Modern Family, 30 Rock and Parks and Rec. Kind of taking cartoonishly quirky characters and placing them in the real world. I love this brand of sitcom, absurdist I guess. The straight forward sitcoms bore the hell out of me (2.5 Men, Big Bang Theory...), but the top rated shows almost always follow the formula.

-I love Carwash's comment about the Office (US) bringing the spirit without redoing the same show. The first season was almost a carbon copy of the British show, and it was bad. I loved the British version so much, I gave the American version another chance, and it really became it's own show. Michael Scott was a much different cringeworthy than David Brent. Both are well meaning but completely lacking self awareness and turning people off while trying desperately to get their love.

In law school I had a long standing debate with my roommate. He insisted 80s sitcoms were the best, and TV turned to crap after that. I argued he felt that way because as a kid, we were too dumb to realize how bad the shows sucked, and he was remembering the shows with the sentimental glow of childhood. TVLand or some other network ran a week of 80s sitcoms like Alf, Silver Spoon and others I can't think of right now. Sure enough, the shows were soooo painfully fuck awful. Especially Alf. As a kid, I thought Alf was funny. He always tried to eat the pet cat. HA! And Mrs. Ochmonek! For anyone else my age who liked Alf, it's worth looking for a clip to see how fucking horrible it was.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:04 pm

Yeah, that Alf was unwatchable bilgewater. Not like the subtle Hogan's Heroes that I liked as a kid.

Note to self: never, ever watch more than one minute of Hogan's Heroes. Must preserve the memories.

govmentchedda · Post by **govmentchedda** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:43 am

Frayzier

SportsDoc · Post by **SportsDoc** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:57 am

Cheers
M*A*S*H
Get Smart
Everybody Loves Raymond
Monty Python's Flying Circus

Cheers and MASH are obvious. Get Smart was a spoof of Bond movies and The Man fron U.N.C.L.E., had the female as the smart one, male as the duffus. Raymond just makes me laugh. Monty Python was my college favorite on Sunday nights on PBS. Might not actually be a sit com, but it was very funny.

Bensell · Post by **Bensell** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:39 pm

In no particular order, my pre-1990 favorites that I mostly saw in reruns or on TV Land:

The Andy Griffith Show
Mary Tyler Moore
All in the Family
The Jeffersons
Newhart - "Hi, I'm Larry; this is my brother Darryl, and this is my other brother Darryl."
M*A*S*H
Cheers
Golden Girls
Night Court

travzilla · Post by **travzilla** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:11 am

Tough list to make. For me I have to break it down into "90's style" and "Modern" (anything before the 90's I assume was terrible).

90's Style sitcoms Top 5:
1) Seinfeld
2) Frasier
3) Cheers
4) Everybody Loves Raymond
5) Friends

Modern Sitcoms top 7:
1) 30 Rock
2) Arrested Development
3) Community
4) Veep
5) Happy Endings
6) The League
7) The Office

Unrankable:
The Simpsons - Seasons 1-10 are just so, so good. Nothing like it before or after.

HDO45331 · Post by **HDO45331** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:58 am

DC47 wrote:1. M.A.S.H.
2. All In The Family
3. I Love Lucy
4. The Honeymooners
5. Phil Silvers/Sgt. Bilko
6. The Simpsons
7. Sanford and Sons
8. Taxi
9. Gilligan's Island
10. The Beverly Hillbillies (greatest theme song ever)
11. Married With Children
12. 30 Rock

My list is limited by having not seen much, if any, of many of the successful sitcoms after around 1975. There are a few I've seen for an episode or two that seemed promising. Always Sunny, Curb, Larry Sanders, Arrested, Office come to mind. Most are painfully, unenduringly bad. Seinfeld, Cheers, Friends, Frasier, Raymond, Scrubs -- these come immediately to mind.

Add in The (original) Odd Couple. Plus, Mork & Mindy. Mine would be close to this.

I have never watched 30 Rock or Arrested Develoment. (Should this disclosure be in a different thread?)

HDO45331 · Post by **HDO45331** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:01 am

When Things Were Rotten was great. Way before it's time.

Newhart was also hilarious (Thanks Bensell)

ETA: Dick Van Dyke was a great show, too.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:05 pm

As a kid, I liked some of the older sitcoms mentioned. Get Smart was great, F-Troop, Lucy (of course), My Favorite Martian. I went through a Leave it to Beaver stage and was excited to show it to my kids. Man, they hated it. It held up great for my generation to watch as a kid, but I think kids today need much quicker pacing and plot movement. Normal dialogue just doesn't hold their attention. Though they did really get into the Brady Bunch and Full House.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:17 pm

Completely agree with these well reasoned statements.

Mentioned it here before, I watched the first few episodes of Arrested Development and just couldn't get into it. Too self-consciously quirky and broadly acted. I know that a lot of people whose tastes I respect love it, though, so to each his own.

Feel "Always Sunny" was just a show pandering to the bro market. Has it's moments but mostly I find the humor to just be the low-hanging fruit variety. It's like a less-PC Bud light commercial stretched to 22 mins.

Of the two, I watched a lot more Sunny - the first couple of seasons were good, and the Philadelphia Eagles tryout episode is a classic... but then it just started seeming gratuitiously cruel.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:09 am

You see I think it's totally making fun of bro culture.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:42 am

A_B wrote:You see I think it's totally making fun of bro culture.

I can definitely see that - but I lost interest when they were going to gorilla mask the failed priest. Just a beat mean spirited for me, even if it was satirizing idiots.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:45 am

Pruitt wrote:
A_B wrote:You see I think it's totally making fun of bro culture.
I can definitely see that - but I lost interest when they were going to gorilla mask the failed priest. Just a beat mean spirited for me, even if it was satirizing idiots.

Rickety cricket gets everything he deserves!

But again...cricket is the one who grew up and tried to be more than what he was in high school. The gang has not moved on at all. Staying in their glory days so to speak. but yeah, it's terrible cruel at times, but the gang's obliviousness to it is kind of the point.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:12 am

travzilla wrote:4) Everybody Loves Raymond
5) Friends

Friends is both overrated and underrated, but come the fuck on.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:15 am

The Sybian wrote:As a kid, I liked some of the older sitcoms mentioned. Get Smart was great, F-Troop, Lucy (of course), My Favorite Martian. I went through a Leave it to Beaver stage and was excited to show it to my kids. Man, they hated it. It held up great for my generation to watch as a kid, but I think kids today need much quicker pacing and plot movement. Normal dialogue just doesn't hold their attention. Though they did really get into the Brady Bunch and Full House.

Let's just say I started to ... this one and it grossed me out too much to post.