The Swamp

FWIW, my sister, who was a prison guard,says Sirhan was a quiet, polite, very nice prisoner. (Charles Manson, not so much.)

Ok, that's an impressive Brush with Evil.

She will tell you their evil pales in comparison to that she was subjected as a child, from her evil older brother. I remember it completely differently.

So the linesman comes into frame right at the end of that and no foul was called (from what I can tell from the box score).

Tommy Lasorda...keeping it classy
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wlu_lax6 wrote:So the linesman comes into frame right at the end of that and no foul was called (from what I can tell from the box score).

What penalty would you call? Play was whistled down; they were between whistles, as it were. Unsportsmanlike conduct? Nah. There's no penalty on that.

When degen first posted that on Saturday, I got to wondering if that may have been personal in some way. Probably not, just hockey players being hockey players. But the reason that occurred to me is that both Brennan and Gionta are Americans and from (or live in?) the same area. I may be a bit off on that.

At any rate, there is nothing uncommon about that. Not at all. You end up on the floor of other teams bench and they will inevitably "help" you get out of there.

I did not know the whistle was dead. I am also not sure what foul to call. A USC would seem reasonable, but probably not getting that call at High School Varsity, let alone an NHL game....but lets say he hits the ice awkward and hurts himself or tangles up his leg and hurts his knee. Seemed cheap to me. No difference than whacking someone across the back of the legs behind the play. This was more than getting you gloves in a face after the goalie freezes the puck.

I suppose you could argue, and argue it well, that it was a hit from behind on a prone player. But "if he was hurt" or "if this" or "if that" don't have any bearing. More of a salt-in-the-wounds moment.

I do have a suggested for you though, based on NHL rules *if* you wanted to call that a penalty, it would have to be a 2-minute Bench Minor, no?

Scottie wrote:I suppose you could argue, and argue it well, that it was a hit from behind on a prone player. But "if he was hurt" or "if this" or "if that" don't have any bearing. More of a salt-in-the-wounds moment.

I do have a suggested for you though, based on NHL rules *if* you wanted to call that a penalty, it would have to be a 2-minute Bench Minor, no?

You're right with your first post, unless I'm missing something on the NHL site. I just don't see a stipulation for dumping somebody back onto the ice like that.

It's almost like they need to Sean Avery that and add something to the books. It's kind of dangerous to have guys crosschecking you back over the boards like that. All sorts of ways guys on the bench could cause in injury with that.

Now, while he's below the boards and on the ground of the opposing bench, before he gets up? Pummel him. But once he's trying to get over the boards, that really should be a penalty.

If a guy can't come off the bench and mix shit up without taking a penalty, he shouldn't be able to start shit when the guy ends up in the bench during the course of play.

BSF21 wrote:If a guy can't come off the bench and mix shit up without taking a penalty, he shouldn't be able to start shit when the guy ends up in the bench during the course of play.

Great points. Both BSF21 and Nonlinear FC.

You could call it either a 2-minute Bench Minor (which makes the most sense to me) or possibly a 5 (or 10) minute Unsportsmanlike Conduct where you don't put a player in the box but just toss him out for a while.

It's not quite a Sean Avery level of utter douchebaggery but it is one of those things for which the NHL doesn't have exact wording. However . . . the NHL does have rules about a player on the bench interfering with play. That's a penalty, certainly. The Brennan/Gionta incident is made more complicated by play being whistled dead at the time.

Me? I'd let it go. The New Jersey players, Gionta in particular, can take care of Brennan if they see fit.

Speaking of letting things go, the playoffs are almost upon us. Which means the officiating will likely change, with interference notably allowed to a much greater extent. At least, that's the way it seems to work most years. I would love it if there was more consistency on this issue.

In my opinion (keeping in mind that I am admittedly on the neanderthal end of the spectrum on such matters), somebody on New Jersey needed to make Brennan answer the bell for this. Not sure if that happened, I hadn't seen this particular play previously. Gionta fell very awkwardly given the timing of the push, and you can't let that shit fly, especially when it's done to somebody the size of Gionta.

Like I said though, I am a bit of a barbarian when it comes to these things so I can see how some might feel that no retribution is neccessary.

Exactly. Unless New Jersey players have become utterly indifferent, those guys took Brennan's licence plate number. Both teams have been eliminated from post-season play but one would hope that it doesn't go unforgotten. (ETA: And they do not meet again this season).

As if being tossed over the boards on to a mini-putt-carpeted cement floor full of spit wasn't bad enough, Gionta just wanted to get back to his bench (given that the play was whistled dead).

The NHL has a number of unwritten rules. Or if not rules, exactly, protocols or codes. And it's not just the NHL; it's any professional hockey league. Or even the Junior ranks. You end up in the other teams' bench? Well, good luck. That's the last place you want to find yourself. You *will* get kicked (with skates), shoved, held down, deterred from getting back on the ice (if the play is going on), insulted, speared, you name it.

While there is a reasonable argument that Brennan should have been penalized, the traditional hockey mind is that Gionta got off easy. Nobody started dealing knuckles to him. What Brennan did was a "getthefuckouttahere" gesture.

Meh, everyone involved is probably more concerned with setting up tee-times at their favorite golf courses at this point.

Tonight's game in Washington vs. the Jets should be fun. Jets are one back of the Caps for the SE title, and then it's a total shitshow from 9th - 6th (+ the Caps) in the East with all 5 of those teams within 2 points of each other.

What a huge game tonight. Can't believe the Jets have got 13 of 14 possible points in their last 7 games, and have actually lost ground to the capitals in that time. Win or the season's done for the Jets. Even if they could sneak past Ottawa for 8th, A Penguins 1st round sweep would be the easiest sweep call in the history of hockey. Getting 3rd and facing the Islanders or Leafs though... that could be a a toss up, which is about the best I could hope for right now.

Also, Jets/Caps/Isles/Rangers play lately aside, how bad is the East? If Pittsburgh is in the finals having played more than 15 games it will be a miracle.
The West though, whatever 7 series play-out there are going to be awesome to watch.

travzilla wrote:What a huge game tonight. Can't believe the Jets have got 13 of 14 possible points in their last 7 games, and have actually lost ground to the capitals in that time. Win or the season's done for the Jets. Even if they could sneak past Ottawa for 8th, A Penguins 1st round sweep would be the easiest sweep call in the history of hockey. Getting 3rd and facing the Islanders or Leafs though... that could be a a toss up, which is about the best I could hope for right now.

With Crosby out and Malkin hurting, the Penguins may not be such a lock in the playoffs - not that I'd bet against them - just saying...

Sharks can clinch their playoff spot with a win tonight!

btw, Trav - are you going to set up the playoff scoring pool again. That has been a fun Swamp tradition the past couple years.

sancarlos wrote: With Crosby out and Malkin hurting, the Penguins may not be such a lock in the playoffs - not that I'd bet against them - just saying...

Yeah that was assuming they're both good to go, which I think they will be.

sancarlos wrote:btw, Trav - are you going to set up the playoff scoring pool again. That has been a fun Swamp tradition the past couple years.

I would like to do that again, yeah. Wasn't sure if I would have time since I'm going to Grand Forks for the weekend, but then I remembered it will be with my wife, her mother, aunt and grandma, so I'm thinking I'll get (need) some time to myself and I can set it up.

sancarlos wrote:With Crosby out and Malkin hurting, the Penguins may not be such a lock in the playoffs - not that I'd bet against them - just saying...

That's an excellent point. The Penguins struggle against certain Canadian-based teams (y'know, like Ottawa). And a number Eight won it all last year. And, really, who doesn't love the Jets?

travzilla wrote:Also, Jets/Caps/Isles/Rangers play lately aside, how bad is the East? If Pittsburgh is in the finals having played more than 15 games it will be a miracle.
The West though, whatever 7 series play-out there are going to be awesome to watch.

I know they are feeding on each other, but I'm not ready to call these teams at the lower end of the seeding bad teams, not at all. You said, the Caps and the Jets (again, putting aside strength of schedule) have been on fire. I think the Caps loss in Ottawa last week was their only loss in April so far. You already posted about the Jets. The Isles have looked very solid of late.

I can't speak for the Rangers or Leafs, I just haven't paid attention. It's one thing to correctly point out a weak division (SE), but when teams put together 9-1, 8-2 or whatever types of runs, that's not completely chalked up to poor opponents. Something is clicking with these teams.

Travzilla or Hotcakes or Scottie or THC can tell me if this is correct, but I would imagine that everybody in Canada would be excited about a Montreal v. Toronto first round matchup, eh?

sancarlos wrote:Travzilla or Hotcakes or Scottie or THC can tell me if this is correct, but I would imagine that everybody in Canada would be excited about a Montreal v. Toronto first round matchup, eh?

Oh, heck yes. Habs Leafs in a playoff series? My word . . . that is as front-stage as it gets in this vicinity. For weeks I've been hoping those constellations align. Oh, yeah, that will be lights out. Every day I look at the standings just to make sure they are still lined up. It's the one thing that has me paying attention.

And when you say "everyone"? Yeah, that would be everyone. Casual Canucks fans, Sens, fans, forget about all that.

Leafs -v- Habs? Oh my heavens above I hope this happens. Because that. Is. Hockey. Right. There. This entire country will be glued to that. It will be nation-wide and incredible.

Nonlinear FC wrote:

travzilla wrote:Also, Jets/Caps/Isles/Rangers play lately aside, how bad is the East? If Pittsburgh is in the finals having played more than 15 games it will be a miracle.
The West though, whatever 7 series play-out there are going to be awesome to watch.

I know they are feeding on each other, but I'm not ready to call these teams at the lower end of the seeding bad teams, not at all. You said, the Caps and the Jets (again, putting aside strength of schedule) have been on fire. I think the Caps loss in Ottawa last week was their only loss in April so far. You already posted about the Jets. The Isles have looked very solid of late.

I can't speak for the Rangers or Leafs, I just haven't paid attention. It's one thing to correctly point out a weak division (SE), but when teams put together 9-1, 8-2 or whatever types of runs, that's not completely chalked up to poor opponents. Something is clicking with these teams.

No, I wouldn't say bad teams either, but I'd call them decent teams who all happen to be playing really well right now. (except the leafs, they are a total mirage and are damn lucky there aren't another 35 games to go in the season).
I just think Pittsburgh is the only elite team in the east this year, where the west probably has 4 or 5 teams that could make a better run at them than anyone in the east. of course "better team" means nothing in the playoffs, when anyone (or any goalie) is capable of getting hot and catching fire.

Scottie wrote: Leafs -v- Habs? Oh my heavens above I hope this happens. Because that. Is. Hockey. Right. There.* This entire country will be glued to that. It will be nation-wide and incredible.

But at the same time, a little insufferable too, right? I mean I don't think it's like espn-yankees-red sox insufferable, but in that vein.

That said, there are Leafs/Habs fans EVERYWHERE and ratings records would be shattered. And the aftermath of one of those fan bases losing to the other would 93% awesome to watch (and 7% possibility of something ugly happening).

Even with Toronto's years in the West, still insane that they haven't met in the playoffs since the 70's.


*That post guest-written by Bob Cole? Oh, Baby!

is this season fucking over yet? fuck.

travzilla wrote:(except the leafs, they are a total mirage and are damn lucky there aren't another 35 games to go in the season).

This is an excellent point, given that the Leafs tend to make some noise around early-to-mid season and then collapse throughout the final 25 games of any given season and inevitably miss the playoffs.

It's a shortened season. The Leafs have been spared. Perhaps a fortunate unintended consequence. Thus far.

I'd bet on the Habs in that series. But, damn, if those kids have any sense of history, allofasudden, that may well be more than intriguing.

travzilla wrote:But at the same time, a little insufferable too, right?

Nah, bring it on. Habs/Leafs will be nation-wide riveting.

And I can get behind anything. Yeah, I can can get behind anything. C'mon, Trav. Crank up some Hip.

I'd take that in a hearbeat over, say, Bruins against the Islanders

Scottie wrote:

travzilla wrote:(except the leafs, they are a total mirage and are damn lucky there aren't another 35 games to go in the season).

This is an excellent point, given that the Leafs tend to make some noise around early-to-mid season and then collapse throughout the final 25 games of any given season and inevitably miss the playoffs.

It's a shortened season. The Leafs have been spared. Perhaps a fortunate unintended consequence. Thus far.

Yep. Not sure if anyone here has gotten into new hockey fancystats yet, but basically the two biggest new stats used to predict a team's future success are Corsi/Fenwick (measures puck possesion) and PDO (measures luck/chance). Both say the Leafs have been getting results way above their talent level, and are due to regress. (Ducks too, by the way). I think this might be a new thread topic since I'd love to see who else has gotten into these things.

sancarlos wrote:With Crosby out and Malkin hurting, the Penguins may not be such a lock in the playoffs - not that I'd bet against them - just saying...

One back, one to go...

travzilla wrote:

Scottie wrote:

travzilla wrote:(except the leafs, they are a total mirage and are damn lucky there aren't another 35 games to go in the season).

This is an excellent point, given that the Leafs tend to make some noise around early-to-mid season and then collapse throughout the final 25 games of any given season and inevitably miss the playoffs.

It's a shortened season. The Leafs have been spared. Perhaps a fortunate unintended consequence. Thus far.

Yep. Not sure if anyone here has gotten into new hockey fancystats yet, but basically the two biggest new stats used to predict a team's future success are Corsi/Fenwick (measures puck possesion) and PDO (measures luck/chance). Both say the Leafs have been getting results way above their talent level, and are due to regress. (Ducks too, by the way). I think this might be a new thread topic since I'd love to see who else has gotten into these things.

James Mirtle and Greg Wyshenski both talk about Corsi a lot. Trav, what's your go to site for the data?

In the west, I'd rather be the 7 and play the Ducks, than be any other underdog seed.

sancarlos wrote:In the west, I'd rather be the 7 and play the Ducks, than be any other underdog seed.

In the East, despite what is posted above, if you could hand pick a playoff opponent, face it, it would be the Leafs.

Oustanding Ovi quote in the post today

WashPo wrote:“Yeah, like, we went to the bar. I got home at 7 in the morning. I get hammered,” Ovechkin deadpanned. “That’s kind of Russian celebration.”

The Wild certainly are not playing like a team that can lock up a playoff spot. Down 6-0 after 2 to Edmonton.

Possible playoff preview tonight with Montreal visiting the ACC center in Toronto. A highly probable match up I should say, only way it doesn't happen is if Montreal gets a point tonight and Boston doesn't get any in it's next two games.

Should be interesting. Last time they met, Toronto kicked the crap out of Montreal, and because of that one game the sense of excitement going into the playoffs is a lot lower here in Montreal than when they clinched a playoff spot a few games before. Montreal has to show up tonight or home ice advantage might mean shit if this series does happen to start on Tuesday.

edit - oh, and it would be their first playoff series against each other since 1979.

P.Martin and J.Neal are playing this evening for the Pens. That just leaves 87 to come back.

TheHumanComa wrote:edit - oh, and it would be their first playoff series against each other since 1979.

. . . which was a Stanley Cup year for the Habs.

Scottie wrote:

TheHumanComa wrote:edit - oh, and it would be their first playoff series against each other since 1979.

. . . which was a Stanley Cup year for the Habs.

yeah... two weeks ago i would have been all over that comment saying things like 'oh yeah, and here comes another.'. But they've played like crap for two weeks straight. Now, I'll just watch like every other nervous fan. but it's 4-1 now vs Toronto so at least i know they can beat them.

I can't believe I have to root for the fucking Bruins tomorrow, but goddamn, I want an Ottawa loss.