The Internet turned out to be a really bad thing

[tennbengal]

Pros:

1. Got to make new friends on the Swamp
2. Porn
3. Streaming live sports events anywhere
4. Peak TV

Cons:

1. Being used to facilitate the end of all things - that is, prior to, say, 1995, fringe crazy groups like white supremacists in this country and neo-Nazis everywhere and jihadists and extremists of all flavors, they would have had a much harder time getting their bile out to the world. How many neo-Nazi tracts did you see pre-1995? I don't recall running across any. You would have had to really search them out. Now? Now any asshole with a connection can find other assholes and do asshole things so much easier. And that's before we even get to the insanity that is the dissemination of alternate realities and the tear-down of the media, costing everyone in the world one of the important checks on power.

This isn't fully fleshed out. But consider it my random thought piece for the day. Which, now that I think about it, is another big CON for the internet, that it allows potentially dumbass idea airings.

[Rex]

What I find interesting is that the Internet has proven to be even more effective and ruthless at forcing content on you than television was, even when there were 5 channels.

[Ryan]

It really is the 21st Century cotton gin.

Wait, I don't think I want to say that. Did the cotton gin decrease slavery? If so, please ignore.

Stupid internet.

[tennbengal]

It really is the 21st Century cotton gin.

Wait, I don't think I want to say that. Did the cotton gin decrease slavery? If so, please ignore.

Stupid internet.

The former, I believe:

While it was true that the cotton gin reduced the labor of removing seeds, it did not reduce the need for slaves to grow and pick the cotton. In fact, the opposite occurred. Cotton growing became so profitable for the planters that it greatly increased their demand for both land and slave labor.

Also, this article:

http://teachinghistory.org/history-cont ... rian/24411

Overall, the slave population in the South grew from 700,000 before Whitney’s patent to more than three million in 1850—striking evidence of the changing Southern economy and its growing dependence on the slave system to keep the economy running.

[Ryan]

Cool, I guessed right.

The internet is so great.

[tennbengal]

Cool, I guessed right.

The internet is so great.

Fair. Point to internet.

[Jerloma]

Yeah, it could have been a great thing. I mean, having access to pretty much all recorded information ever at our fingertips is amazing and theoretically should make a society smarter and more adept at thinking critically. Problem is, this society doesn't want to be smarter and better at critical thinking. It wants willful ignorance and echo chambers. As it turns out, the internet is really good at creating that too.

[tennbengal]

Yeah, it could have been a great thing. I mean, having access to pretty much all recorded information ever at our fingertips is amazing and theoretically should make a society smarter and more adept at thinking critically. Problem is, this society doesn't want to be smarter and better at critical thinking. It wants willful ignorance and echo chambers. As it turns out, the internet is really good at creating that too.

yeah, that gets at my musing exactly, I think. The bent toward willful ignorance, and the seeking out of same, I never saw that coming. Didn't think it would be a thing. And watching people who apparently revel in willful ignorance find each other and band together is horrifying to watch unfold, to me anyway.

[degenerasian]

Pros and cons for sure. More pros for sure.

I think a lot of the pros are behind the scenes that we don't hear about.

Police using facebook posts to monitor and prevent crimes.
Fundraising has gotten exponentially easier with the internet.
Reviews of places and restaurants are awesome.
I have apps that tell me if the train is delayed or if a storm is coming

etc...

[P.D.X.]

The entire restructuring of the the music/media industries is +1.

(At least for consumers, not so much for corps.)

[Jerloma]

Yeah, it could have been a great thing. I mean, having access to pretty much all recorded information ever at our fingertips is amazing and theoretically should make a society smarter and more adept at thinking critically. Problem is, this society doesn't want to be smarter and better at critical thinking. It wants willful ignorance and echo chambers. As it turns out, the internet is really good at creating that too.

yeah, that gets at my musing exactly, I think. The bent toward willful ignorance, and the seeking out of same, I never saw that coming. Didn't think it would be a thing. And watching people who apparently revel in willful ignorance find each other and band together is horrifying to watch unfold, to me anyway.

Totally. It's a phenomenon that manifests itself in the most dangerous ways imaginable, not the least of which is ending up with a sociopathic child in the Oval.

[Pruitt]

The entire restructuring of the the music/media industries is +1.

(At least for consumers, not so much for corps.)

This is one of the great things about the internet. Back in the day, it was next to impossible - even in a major city - to find great albeit obscure music. now it is literally a couple of clicks away.

There are other pros which have been touched upon, but the biggest negatives are just brutal. The legitimization of even the most wicked and offensive opinion is something that our society is just starting to have to deal with. A world where outrageous and spectacular falsehoods are now part of the discourse? Unimaginable 20 years ago.

As far as I'm concerned Twitter and other platforms are little more than cesspools covered by a thin meniscus of decency. I am a firm believer in democracy, but not in the democratization of opinions.

[Ryan]

The top of the internet is when disasters happen and people can find each other quickly. Then it goes baseball-reference.com, any meme with the bug-eyed wrestling fan, my Twitter account and any others I follow, and Amazon Prime.

[tennbengal]

The entire restructuring of the the music/media industries is +1.

(At least for consumers, not so much for corps.)

how has it been for the artists as it has played out? Genuinely asking, don't really have a take on what I am certain is a complex inquiry...

[tennbengal]

The entire restructuring of the the music/media industries is +1.

(At least for consumers, not so much for corps.)

This is one of the great things about the internet. Back in the day, it was next to impossible - even in a major city - to find great albeit obscure music. now it is literally a couple of clicks away.

There are other pros which have been touched upon, but the biggest negatives are just brutal. The legitimization of even the most wicked and offensive opinion is something that our society is just starting to have to deal with. A world where outrageous and spectacular falsehoods are now part of the discourse? Unimaginable 20 years ago.

As far as I'm concerned Twitter and other platforms are little more than cesspools covered by a thin meniscus of decency. I am a firm believer in democracy, but not in the democratization of opinions.

As to the bold, yes. I mean, for fuckssake, on a slightly less apocalyptic note, somehow flat earthers are getting a hearing.

[P.D.X.]

The entire restructuring of the the music/media industries is +1.

(At least for consumers, not so much for corps.)

how has it been for the artists as it has played out? Genuinely asking, don't really have a take on what I am certain is a complex inquiry...

Mixed I reckon. Easier to get your work distributed but more difficult to make money. I think the most that benefit are artists of niche genres/audiences that never had a pathway to sales.

[Johnnie]

I've had this same thought go through my head. There's this function in society that whatever is new and cool just seems to entropy (not a verb) itself into the worst thing possible.

You'd think having the Library of Alexandria in your pocket would be the most phenomenal thing ever, but it's just a distraction machine full of the worst segments of humanity.

[Joe K]

The entire restructuring of the the music/media industries is +1.

(At least for consumers, not so much for corps.)

This is one of the great things about the internet. Back in the day, it was next to impossible - even in a major city - to find great albeit obscure music. now it is literally a couple of clicks away.

There are other pros which have been touched upon, but the biggest negatives are just brutal. The legitimization of even the most wicked and offensive opinion is something that our society is just starting to have to deal with. A world where outrageous and spectacular falsehoods are now part of the discourse? Unimaginable 20 years ago.

As far as I'm concerned Twitter and other platforms are little more than cesspools covered by a thin meniscus of decency. I am a firm believer in democracy, but not in the democratization of opinions.

As to the bold, yes. I mean, for fuckssake, on a slightly less apocalyptic note, somehow flat earthers are getting a hearing.

The points about the internet's negatives are well-taken but I don't think any of this is new. For all the talk about the "alt-right," the KKK was a major force in American society for most of the 20th Century. Hell, George Wallace got millions of votes for President in 1968. And wicked and offensive opinions have been legitimized for decades, at least when directed at minorities, leftists or civil rights activists. None of that is new or unique to the internet age. And although they were all more professional and rational than Trump, Nixon, Reagan, Bush all used appeals to racism as part of their political messaging.

[tennbengal]

The entire restructuring of the the music/media industries is +1.

(At least for consumers, not so much for corps.)

This is one of the great things about the internet. Back in the day, it was next to impossible - even in a major city - to find great albeit obscure music. now it is literally a couple of clicks away.

There are other pros which have been touched upon, but the biggest negatives are just brutal. The legitimization of even the most wicked and offensive opinion is something that our society is just starting to have to deal with. A world where outrageous and spectacular falsehoods are now part of the discourse? Unimaginable 20 years ago.

As far as I'm concerned Twitter and other platforms are little more than cesspools covered by a thin meniscus of decency. I am a firm believer in democracy, but not in the democratization of opinions.

As to the bold, yes. I mean, for fuckssake, on a slightly less apocalyptic note, somehow flat earthers are getting a hearing.

The points about the internet's negatives are well-taken but I don't think any of this is new. For all the talk about the "alt-right," the KKK was a major force in American society for most of the 20th Century. Hell, George Wallace got millions of votes for President in 1968. And wicked and offensive opinions have been legitimized for decades, at least when directed at minorities, leftists or civil rights activists. None of that is new or unique to the internet age. And although they were all more professional and rational than Trump, Nixon, Reagan, Bush all used appeals to racism as part of their political messaging.

The new part is the ease with which relatively few people with crazy ideas can get those ideas aired to all. And that is new. I wasn't saying racism is new, you would be reading into the point I was making something that isn't there. I was a history major in college, granted, not the world's best history major, but enough of a student not to be making that point...

[tennbengal]

1967 Ohio racist guy couldn't easily link up with 1967 racist Maine guy. The ease with which that all happens now, across whichever not awesome ideology makes you comfortable to feel yucky about, that is wholly new with regard to scale and wholly problematic. Yes, I stand by that take.

[Steve of phpBB]

1967 Ohio racist guy couldn't easily link up with 1967 racist Maine guy. The ease with which that all happens now, across whichever not awesome ideology makes you comfortable to feel yucky about, that is wholly new with regard to scale and wholly problematic. Yes, I stand by that take.

On the other hand - and this is not as important, sure - the Ohio soccer fan couldn't easily link up with the Maine soccer fan. Or the Ohio supporter of gay or immigrant rights couldn't link up with the Maine supporter.

[tennbengal]

1967 Ohio racist guy couldn't easily link up with 1967 racist Maine guy. The ease with which that all happens now, across whichever not awesome ideology makes you comfortable to feel yucky about, that is wholly new with regard to scale and wholly problematic. Yes, I stand by that take.

On the other hand - and this is not as important, sure - the Ohio soccer fan couldn't easily link up with the Maine soccer fan. Or the Ohio supporter of gay or immigrant rights couldn't link up with the Maine supporter.

Yup, that's under "pro" in my above list (see my "Swamp friends") note. But, I am not sure the trade-off has been worth it. Not that there is anything to be done about it, just noting, the bad here is pretty overwhelming at this point in terms of erosion of institutions and political and social norms etc.

[Gunpowder]

The entire restructuring of the the music/media industries is +1.

(At least for consumers, not so much for corps.)

how has it been for the artists as it has played out? Genuinely asking, don't really have a take on what I am certain is a complex inquiry...

Mixed I reckon. Easier to get your work distributed but more difficult to make money. I think the most that benefit are artists of niche genres/audiences that never had a pathway to sales.

Winners: Talented artists

Losers: Shitty artists pushed by labels

I'd call it a win.

[P.D.X.]

Also a win for the live music market since artists now have to pretty much tour relentlessly to make any scratch.

[Rush2112]

Haven't artists made more scratch from tours than records sales historically?

[Pruitt]

1967 Ohio racist guy couldn't easily link up with 1967 racist Maine guy. The ease with which that all happens now, across whichever not awesome ideology makes you comfortable to feel yucky about, that is wholly new with regard to scale and wholly problematic. Yes, I stand by that take.

Like Sandy Hook "Truthers" For Instance

[tennbengal]

1967 Ohio racist guy couldn't easily link up with 1967 racist Maine guy. The ease with which that all happens now, across whichever not awesome ideology makes you comfortable to feel yucky about, that is wholly new with regard to scale and wholly problematic. Yes, I stand by that take.

Like Sandy Hook "Truthers" For Instance

yes. for sure.

[Gunpowder]

The internet uncovered a plot to sell child sex slaves out of a DC pizza parlor and you guys consider this a bad thing?

Fuckin' cucks.

[tennbengal]

The internet uncovered a plot to sell child sex slaves out of a DC pizza parlor and you guys consider this a bad thing?

Fuckin' cucks.

Fair. Used to have to rely on Encyclopedia Brown for that kind of sleuthing...

[howard]

bengal, your con argument is well taken, and I agree. At the same time, there is a value to exposure of that darkness. Sunshine being the best disinfectant. I don't think that overcomes the con aspect, but it is something.

Pros:
1. Got to make new friends on the Swamp
2. Porn

priorities, man.

[tennbengal]

bengal, your con argument is well taken, and I agree. At the same time, there is a value to exposure of that darkness. Sunshine being the best disinfectant. I don't think that overcomes the con aspect, but it is something.

Pros:
1. Got to make new friends on the Swamp
2. Porn

priorities, man.

I used to think sunshine was the best disinfectant, until I finally realized how many people don't actually believe that their racist etc. views are wrong. And now can find each other so much easier to validate their fucked up views.

[Gunpowder]

Yeah if sunshine is the best disinfectant, then like, what's up with Africa, man?

[tennbengal]

SONshine is the best disinfectant, amirite?

Everyone just needs some JC in their life and all will be well.