2017 NBA Offseason

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:10 am

Pretty great argument for a team to make Blake Griffin a point forward.

eta: Been wracking my brain to figure out a good fit, and I come up with either Clippers letting Paul go and resigning reddick to do this. Or maybe Blake on the Pelicans is a good fit. You try stopping a Griffin/Davis pick and roll. Cousins, too.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:44 am

A_B wrote:Pretty great argument for a team to make Blake Griffin a point forward.

eta: Been wracking my brain to figure out a good fit, and I come up with either Clippers letting Paul go and resigning reddick to do this. Or maybe Blake on the Pelicans is a good fit. You try stopping a Griffin/Davis pick and roll. Cousins, too.

This quote from that article seems to blow a pretty big hole in that author's argument:

There’s only so much impact Griffin can have as a power forward. While he has expanded the range of his jumper in recent years, he’s still an inferior outside shooter in comparison to most of the players at his position.

I get that Griffin is a very good passer for a power forward but I'm highly skeptical of the notion that a subpar shooter can be an effective primary ballhandler in today's NBA. If faced with a large dose of PNRs featuring Griffin as the ballhandler, couldn't teams just go under every screen?

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:46 am

Isn't that what the Sixers are going to try with Simmons next year?

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:50 am

mister d wrote:Isn't that what the Sixers are going to try with Simmons next year?

Yes. But by trading up for Fultz they obviously gave themselves a strong fallback option. Plus I really don't think Griffin is as good a ballhandler as Simmons, let alone the prototypical effective point forwards LeBron and Giannis.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:37 pm

I've been on vacation and not following the rumors as closely as normal, but if the Rockets get Chris Paul a) that's not going to work and b) it's going to be very hard to watch it not work cause he's about my least favorite player of all-time.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:40 pm

Considering Butler could've been had for a better arrangement than what Minnesota gave up, I get this strategy.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:38 pm

As long as Stevens can convince George to play power forward, I like that plan. Especially if they could trade for George without giving up Bradley. Thomas, Bradley, Hayward, George and Horford is a pretty damn good lineup.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:53 pm

If the cavs see that and aren't doing everything to short circuit it then their GM needs to be let go.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:17 pm

A_B wrote:If the cavs see that and aren't doing everything to short circuit it then their GM needs to be let go.

First they need to actually have a GM... But aside from that technicality, they're in a tough spot. Indiana isn't interested in Love so the Cavs are trying to find a 3-way deal where they trade Love for young players/picks that they can then flip for George. Denver wants Love but Indiana passed on the young players the Nuggets were willing to offer. It's not clear who else has interest in Love and would be willing to give up assets that appeal to Indiana.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:41 am

Giff wrote:I've been on vacation and not following the rumors as closely as normal, but if the Rockets get Chris Paul a) that's not going to work and b) it's going to be very hard to watch it not work cause he's about my least favorite player of all-time.

BOOM!

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:52 am

I love it. For the clippers.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:03 am

That's a pretty big package for a middle aged PG who can't even build a treehouse

Post by **brian** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:15 am

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:39 am

A_B wrote:I love it. For the clippers.

I guess if CP3 was dead set on leaving they got a decent return but from a strict talent standpoint, Houston easily won this deal. Beverly and LouWill are both good, albeit one-dimensional, players but neither is anywhere near Paul's level. Dekker will never be more than an 8th man on a good team and the 2018 pick figures to land near the tail end of the first round. Houston could easily be the second best team in the NBA next season. And if something fluky happens like a Curry or Durant injury, they've got a very legit title chance.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:03 pm

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:07 pm

Brian Windhorst is reporting that the Rockets are still pursuing Paul George. Not sure what they could offer to get him, but if they can somehow swing that, then look out.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:10 pm

Joe K wrote:Brian Windhorst is reporting that the Rockets are still pursuing Paul George. Not sure what they could offer to get him, but if they can somehow swing that, then look out.

Have to be anderson and gordon, no?

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:14 pm

If only we had any evidence of how close Chris Paul could get to the NBA Finals with great players around him

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:20 pm

Ryan wrote:If only we had any evidence of how close Chris Paul could get to the NBA Finals with great players around him

This reminds me of the pre-2011 talk that Dirk couldn't lead a team to the title, or the pre-2009 talk about how A-Rod couldn't hit in the postseason, or the pre-2007 talk about "Manning Face." If Josh Smith didn't have an out of body experience in Game 6 of the 2015 West Semis, we'd be talking about how in the last postseason where Paul had healthy teammates he knocked off the defending champs with an epic Game 7 performance and then made the West Finals.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:38 pm

Jackson was noted in the other thread as leaving, but here's the latest:

I know you're dying for his take:

Ooooh. Spicy. When did Houston become desirable?

Oh, shit.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:39 pm

Joe K wrote:This reminds me of the pre-2011 talk that Dirk couldn't lead a team to the title, or the pre-2009 talk about how A-Rod couldn't hit in the postseason, or the pre-2007 talk about "Manning Face." If Josh Smith didn't have an out of body experience in Game 6 of the 2015 West Semis, we'd be talking about how in the last postseason where Paul had healthy teammates he knocked off the defending champs with an epic Game 7 performance and then made the West Finals.

He's awesome, it's a good trade, it should make them better. But they very probably won't win.

I'm gearing myself up for the same thing. Agree that it doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:03 pm

Johnnie wrote:
Ooooh. Spicy. When did Houston become desirable?

Supermax, plus no state income tax.

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:39 pm

harden cp3 melo and paul george...god id be hyped if this was 2008

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:47 pm

Paul george was only OK as a freshman in college.

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:43 pm

cp3 is a great facilitator coming to a team of shooters. losing lou williams hurts but they had to do something to catch golden state. they need an athletic big in the worst way, but where he will come from i have no idea

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:40 pm

Hope it's for real, but the media here says no way Ujiri leaves the Raptors.

From the Toronto Sun:

However, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment likely headed this scenario off at the path about a year ago, when Ujiri was given a long-term extension and a significant raise. That deal still has four years remaining and Ujiri has been granted total autonomy in Toronto and has overseen the greatest run of success in franchise history. The organization has also contributed millions of dollars to his Giants of Africa program.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:03 pm

Wait. So this may just be a one year rental? I like it even more for the clips.

Banana boat 2018 in New York.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:07 pm

I am curious as to how much a 32-year-old Paul is willing to play uptempo on every possession under D'Antoni. Last four years, the Clips' pace of play has slowed. They sped up significantly with the coaching change from Del Negro (ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha) to Rivers, but have slowed every year since.

I am also interested in seeing how Paul's never-ending barking at teammates (and coaches) flies under D'Antoni.

I also think Wade and Anthony would be horrific fits under D'Antoni. Walk-it-up guys who are not great three-point shooters on the wings who want to dominate the ball in half court isolation situations. We already saw how well it "worked" with Anthony and him being older and unwilling to the play four doesn't help.

Post by **brian** » Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:09 pm

To play contrarian this is literally Paul's last shot so he might be willing to play second or third fiddle. If not now then never.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:21 am

brian wrote:To play contrarian this is literally Paul's last shot so he might be willing to play second or third fiddle. If not now then never.

It will be beneficial to both Paul and Harden to share the responsibility of running the offense, thereby lessening the physical burden on each. Of course, with D'Antoni pulling the strings, they'll both still log a ton of minutes. Harden was sixth last season and Shawn Marion regularly appeared among the league leaders in minutes in the Suns' heyday (they spent the season when Amare was on shelf playing what was a six-man rotation a lot of the time).

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:58 am

DSafetyGuy wrote:
brian wrote:To play contrarian this is literally Paul's last shot so he might be willing to play second or third fiddle. If not now then never.
It will be beneficial to both Paul and Harden to share the responsibility of running the offense, thereby lessening the physical burden on each. Of course, with D'Antoni pulling the strings, they'll both still log a ton of minutes. Harden was sixth last season and Shawn Marion regularly appeared among the league leaders in minutes in the Suns' heyday (they spent the season when Amare was on shelf playing what was a six-man rotation a lot of the time).

Yeah, overplaying his starters is probably MDA's biggest coaching weakness. He could learn from Steve Kerr, who keeps the rotation deep even when his role players aren't playing well, which allows the Warriors' stars to stay fresh and dominate the end of games. Harden carried a huge offensive burden last year, and he looked spent by the end of the Spurs series. I really like the trade from the Rockets' perspective but my biggest concern is that because they gave up some of their depth, MDA will ride the starters even more heavily.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:01 am

I have only begun to skim Mark Deeks' 2017 NBA Manifesto (a link to the intro site page, but the link to the actual manifesto is there), but it is amazing.

And downloadable.

Several years ago, when I really cared about the NBA, this would have made me lose my mind in ecstasy.

Hat tip, Zach Lowe.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:07 pm

What the fuck?

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:54 pm

A_B wrote:What the fuck?

Based on the standard Phil Jackson set, being President of Basketball Operations for the Knicks lets you get paid $12 million to do absolutely nothing. If anyone on here knows James Dolan, please let him know that I am also inquiring about that position.

Post by **brian** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:35 am

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:38 pm

An 11 step guide to saving the Clippers

Ringer article from everyone's favorite basketball pundit.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:55 pm

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:00 pm

Johnnie wrote:An 11 step guide to saving the Clippers

Ringer article from everyone's favorite basketball pundit.

It was a pretty good read.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:02 pm

A_B wrote:
Johnnie wrote:An 11 step guide to saving the Clippers

Ringer article from everyone's favorite basketball pundit.

It was a pretty good read.

I have to agree. I'm not exactly aware of the complete ins and outs of who's who and what's what, but what he said made sense, mostly.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:05 pm

Whoa! I did NOT see that coming. Not sure how the Russ/George fit will work but I don't think the Thunder gave up much. Sabonis looked really bad last year and I don't value Oladipo very highly. Now they need to convince Griffin to pull a LeBron and come back to his hometown.

ETA: The absolute best case scenario is PG13 and Russ decide they love playing together but would rather do so in LA for the Lakers, the Thunder fade into Bolivian and then move back to Seattle.