The Swamp

So three fairly big cheating scandals going on in the chess, poker, and fishing worlds. Each worthy of conversation and debate, although the fishing one seems to be the most clear cut.

The chess cheating scandal has being going for about a month, and is definitely the one that I am the most uncertain about. Presumably the case is built on the fact that Hans Niemann has apparently cheated (online) when he was young, and is simply not at the level to beat Magnus- particularly when Magnus is playing white.

I have watched the poker clip a couple times and read up on exactly what makes it so bizarre, but I am simply not knowledgeable enough in the game to understand why it can't be a case of a not too bright player (in poker terms anyway) getting lucky on a hero call? I am wondering if the poker analysts are looking at this too technically and giving the accused too much credit when perhaps she didn't really know in the moment why she was betting and calling the way she was.

edit- I forgot to mention one of the most bizarre details of the poker scandal- Robbi agreed to give back the money to her accuser, almost immediately after it happened. Why the hell would she do that if she was not cheating?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63108879

1) Fishing thing. I read an article from the Post and the main "expert" was like 99.9 percent of fisherman wouldn't do this. I'm calling bullshit. I get that most tournaments have scenarios in place to make sure this doesn't happen, but with the amount of money on the line in some of these tournaments... C'mon.

2) Chess. Covered a lot of this in the other thread. The guy doing the accusing should put up or shut up, IMO. I've seen the same basic story of him saying he'll have more to say "soon." We have long since past the "soon" deadline.

3) Poker. Sheesh. First off, why did she give the money back? Secondly, that shit is very hard for me to follow. I need to watch a video that breaks it down.

If we want to be completests, we should mention the Houston Astros (MLB) here as well.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:52 pm If we want to be completests, we should mention the Houston Astros (MLB) here as well.

Looking at Bellinger's OPS free-fall, maybe the Dodgers too?

The poker thing seems like a guy (rightfully) pissed off at a shit call. And giving the money back was probably because she was being berated by a male star in her profession when she's somewhat new to this. I have zero reason to believe it was anything other than a stupid call and not sure I've read any evidence given that there was cheating. And if there was cheating, they picked a really stupid hand to pick.

"I shouldn't have lost because you shouldn't have bet" being acceptable in poker seems really dumb to me.

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:43 pm "I shouldn't have lost because you shouldn't have bet" being acceptable in poker seems really dumb to me.

Yeah. I totally get being pissed off, but shit happens!

Giff wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:13 pm

mister d wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:52 pm If we want to be completests, we should mention the Houston Astros (MLB) here as well.

Looking at Bellinger's OPS free-fall, maybe the Dodgers too?

The poker thing seems like a guy (rightfully) pissed off at a shit call. And giving the money back was probably because she was being berated by a male star in her profession when she's somewhat new to this. I have zero reason to believe it was anything other than a stupid call and not sure I've read any evidence given that there was cheating. And if there was cheating, they picked a really stupid hand to pick.

I just watched that video and... for the most part I agree with you. The one piece of "evidence" is her taking way too long and then the chair seems to shake or something.

I don't know the game that well, but this guy seems to and he's mostly "it's a one of a kind bonehead decision turned luckbox winner... I can't prove she's cheating, but it's so out there as a move I can't wrap my head around it."

The one and only poker tournament I ever participated in included a minor-league version of this incident. On the final table, one guy over-bet a crappy hand that any good player would have folded on. But he got incredibly lucky, low-probability cards on the Turn and the River, and knocked out two other guys. When they realized afterward what had happened, they wanted to throttle him.

The poker thing is 100% sexism. I think Phil Ivey was at that table and if he'd made the exact same bets as that woman, nobody ever hears a thing about it.

Assume she was somehow cheating. And she goes all in on a hand where she's behind? That makes no fucking sense. Yes, she had the high card, but I think the video showed her odds at 47%. That's a really stupid way to cheat.

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:44 pm3) Poker. Sheesh. First off, why did she give the money back? Secondly, that shit is very hard for me to follow. I need to watch a video that breaks it down.

I've watched 10 seconds of this video and already hate this dude. He has a Brett Favre poster behind him and he says that after watching some video of this play, he's "90% sure she's cheating." I'll watch a bit more, but that 90% better include seeing her with a phone in her hand or something.

I’m glad we’ve come far enough to say it’s sexist to accuse a woman of cheating instead of just saying she’s a stupid woman who can’t play cards

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:44 pm 1) Fishing thing. I read an article from the Post and the main "expert" was like 99.9 percent of fisherman wouldn't do this. I'm calling bullshit. I get that most tournaments have scenarios in place to make sure this doesn't happen, but with the amount of money on the line in some of these tournaments... C'mon.

You're 100% right. These are my people and I can confirm it's been done many times before.

I'm in the "there is no such thing as bad publicity" camp...this story will make this tournament/group so much more money in the future.

Thought this thread would mention Adam Levine.

He wanted to name his new baby after the girl he was cheating on his wife with. Spicy!

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:44 pm

2) Chess. Covered a lot of this in the other thread. The guy doing the accusing should put up or shut up, IMO. I've seen the same basic story of him saying he'll have more to say "soon." We have long since past the "soon" deadline.

Carlssen did come out and say the other guy was cheating I thought.

"Likely cheated" in more than 100 games online according to Chess.com

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63140246

A_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:01 am

Nonlinear FC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:44 pm

2) Chess. Covered a lot of this in the other thread. The guy doing the accusing should put up or shut up, IMO. I've seen the same basic story of him saying he'll have more to say "soon." We have long since past the "soon" deadline.

Carlssen did come out and say the other guy was cheating I thought.

I mean, yeah, but without actually providing any concrete evidence. And in the articles that I've seen, it's still pretty nebulous. With that said, when you start comparing his moves to what a more powerful AI would do in online competition, and it starts lining up in a lot of those games... Now I'm seeing some actual evidence.

Carlssen saying the kid didn't seem nervous just wasn't really cutting it. And there's still the issue of how the kid would be able to cheat during a live, in-person event. I get the online stuff, as noted. But how you'd pull off something using electronics and vibrations, our conjecture in the other thread notwithstanding, still seems far-fetched.

It's now hit the world of Irish Dance competition, too. Sexual favors traded for better scores with an adjudicator who's also been accused of child sex abuse. Allegations were first made in July, with supporting evidence, but the accused has been allowed to continue to judge.

Juco baseball goes all sorts of Astros
https://www.si.com/college/2023/05/12/c ... ng-helmets

Rumor down here is the Astros were going to use vibrating butt plugs this season, but got spooked after finding out they weren't all silicone as advertised.

Giff wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 12:51 pm Rumor down here is the Astros were going to use vibrating butt plugs this season, but got spooked after finding out they weren't all silicone as advertised.

Astros playing chess, not checkers.