Random Politics

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:14 pm

mister d wrote:Fathers side left there 75(?) years ago. Haven't heard any clammoring about going back.

Shitty pizza.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:06 pm

mister d wrote:I guess when I think of the phrase 1% I think of gaudy outward displays of wealth, not sound investments.

I don't think I'm disagreeing with what "the one percent" means. Rather that you aren't middle class when you've got more money than 90+ percent of the population

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:09 pm

mister d wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:Single, childless guy caveats aside, I wouldn't be able to do that if I was paying $600 more a month in house payments.
Good fucking god, man. That'll get you 40% of my ... daycare bill. For just the youngest. And we're at the lowest amount we've paid in like 4 years.

Well $600 more a month in mortgage payments would just mean I wouldn't be able to save at the same rate... but I'd still be doing pretty damn well compared to a lot of people.

I guess I'm just overly cognizant of where I stand -- and extremely grateful for it -- because of the way my job landscape looks at the moment and where I was less than 4 years ago. So while I wish I had more money (doesn't everyone?) I have to step back and go "yeah, for my industry and what I get to do, I'm doing just fine."

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:28 pm

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:41 pm

rass wrote:I live in the same county as Syb (though comparatively on the wrong side of the figurative tracks) and my wife and I pull down no where near $350K and I feel we're comfortably middle class. Take vacations. Have decent cars. I guess it might depend on his definition of luxury items? I've never considered myself upper middle class.

My point is just that a family income of $350K doesn't get you a "rich" man's lifestyle here. I am sure I partly skewed by my hometown, which used to be the lowest housing market in the country, and some of the towns surrounding mine, where the average home is over $1 million. I wasn't saying a comfy middle class lifestyle requires $350K, just that it takes a lot more to be "rich". Similarly, you don't consider yourself Upper Middle Class, but I am willing to wager you and your wife make more than the $100,000 income to be classified as UMC.

I look at my in-laws town 10 minutes away from me, and the prices are astronomical. They have a tear down house on a quarter of an acre, and I'm sure they could get $850,000-$900,000 for the land. It's a nice enough neighborhood, but classic 1950s planned suburban neighborhood, now with McMansions with 10 feet of side lawn between the neighboring house. The beauty of it, they know it's going to be bought as a tear down, so they fix nothing superficial, and plan on leaving shit in the house when they move out, and let the builders scoop it into a dumpster. I think they paid $35,000 when they bought the house in 1972. My parents paid twice as much in 1979 for a similar house, and it's worth about $150,000.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:01 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:
mister d wrote:I guess when I think of the phrase 1% I think of gaudy outward displays of wealth, not sound investments.
I don't think I'm disagreeing with what "the one percent" means. Rather that you aren't middle class when you've got more money than 90+ percent of the population

So you'd say a household income of $110,000 for a family is wealthy (above middle class)? The 90% percentile is somewhere around $100,000-$110,000. As a single guy, I'm sure that sounds like a hell of a lot more than it does to someone supporting a family. Like D said, daycare alone was over $3,000/month when my kids were both in preschool. We sent them to the Y for aftercare this year, which is one of the cheapest options, and that was $1,200/month. And come summer, it is 5 times as much. For a family of 4, multiply all your costs for food and whatever else by 4 (average family size). Factor in all of their activities... They outgrow their clothes every year, so you are buying all of that. While I appreciate that 90% of households make less than $110,000, I refuse to consider a household with that income wealthy. This whole discussion needs to have a separate wealth measure for single person households vs. a household with kids. Fuck, I didn't even get into health insurance for a family, or the difference in cost of living.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:15 pm

Jerloma wrote:
mister d wrote:Fathers side left there 75(?) years ago. Haven't heard any clammoring about going back.
Shitty pizza.

BRilliant!

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:32 pm

So are we going to talk about this Dream Hoarders book or what? I haven't read it (of course), but based on how it's described, he's right.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:21 am

The Sybian wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:
mister d wrote:I guess when I think of the phrase 1% I think of gaudy outward displays of wealth, not sound investments.
I don't think I'm disagreeing with what "the one percent" means. Rather that you aren't middle class when you've got more money than 90+ percent of the population
So you'd say a household income of $110,000 for a family is wealthy (above middle class)? The 90% percentile is somewhere around $100,000-$110,000. As a single guy, I'm sure that sounds like a hell of a lot more than it does to someone supporting a family. Like D said, daycare alone was over $3,000/month when my kids were both in preschool. We sent them to the Y for aftercare this year, which is one of the cheapest options, and that was $1,200/month. And come summer, it is 5 times as much. For a family of 4, multiply all your costs for food and whatever else by 4 (average family size). Factor in all of their activities... They outgrow their clothes every year, so you are buying all of that. While I appreciate that 90% of households make less than $110,000, I refuse to consider a household with that income wealthy. This whole discussion needs to have a separate wealth measure for single person households vs. a household with kids. Fuck, I didn't even get into health insurance for a family, or the difference in cost of living.

I don't care what the $$$s really are and what people's expenses are compared to them. If you're making more than 90% of the population you're not in the middle. I'm not sure why this is so complicated.

Because what's the point of calling it "the middle class" if it's really not the people in the middle?

ETA: I also think that being able to afford things like daycare, new clothes for kids every year, activities, etc, is a sign of relative prosperity. Is that shit expensive? Yes. I'm not disputing the costs. Just that when you're able to be in a position and not have to rely on family members, unable to do soccer for your kids because you can't afford it, etc etc, then you're pretty damn lucky. Even if you'd love to be able to make and save more money.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:36 am

Bronto's ETA is a really good point. Putting aside the semantics of what's "middle class" as opposed to "upper class," being able to afford a house, live where you want (and not just near family), pay for childcare, go to nice bars and restaurants, shop at Whole Foods, etc. are things that just aren't possible for tens of millions (probably hundreds of millions) of Americans. The US economy works pretty well for those with the education, success and luck to at least be upper middle class, but not so well for everyone else. I hadn't heard about that Dream Hoarders boom before Rex's post but am interested in reading it now.

BSF21 · Post by **BSF21** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:40 am

Joe K wrote:, shop at Whole Foods.

Pump the brakes, Moneybags.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:55 am

Friend of mine calls is Whole Paycheck Foods.

What a peasant.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:57 am

Where the line designating someone as upper middle class should be drawn is kind of irrelevant, because the next group down takes most of its consumption-related cues from that group, and then so does the next group after that, so the tastes and habits of the 20% (which is where the Dream Hoarders guy draws the line) become the tastes and habits of a much larger group, some of whom either can't afford that life or do irrational things (like buy a house in the exurbs and drive 90 minutes to work every day) to make it affordable in the short term. If I were inclined towards radically changing the distribution of wealth in the U.S., and to be perfectly honest I'm not, that's where I would direct my energies rather than fuss about the inequality at the extremes.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:43 pm

A_B wrote:Friend of mine calls is Whole Paycheck Foods.

What a peasant.

Only time I ever shopped there was when I was in the DC area last month. Stocked up on beer and snacks for the room at the nearby Whole Foods. Beer guy turned me on to a delicious Belgian sour ale - $6 a bottle ($8 Canadian), but what the hell, something that rare and well curated had to be worth it.

And it was delicious. Even more delicious when it arrived at Toronto area beer stores for $3.25.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:41 pm

France's Marine Le Pen charged over funding scandal

Oh wow. Politicians can get in trouble. Neat.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:45 pm

I would normally enjoy a politician in FU mode, but...

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:30 pm

rass wrote:I would normally enjoy a politician in FU mode, but...

In a sane country, that picture would guarantee that that fat piece of shit never gets elected again. Anywhere.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:12 pm

Pruitt wrote:
In a sane country, that picture would guarantee that that fat piece of shit never gets elected again. Anywhere.

I think everything Christie did to earn his record setting 17% approval rating guarantees he never gets elected, but considering Trump...

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:21 pm

I love this story! Next he should commandeer an NJ Transit train and ride it in to Manhattan by himself....on time

Post by **brian** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:46 pm

Generally I hate the "what if Obama did this?" game but this would be one of my favorites.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:58 pm

My mom and I had a text chat about him tonight and I'll never be able to explain how I am how I am and view him how I do. And he's not even some legacy Irish catholic or something.

Post by **brian** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:38 am

Test?

ETA: Thought it was weird there were no posts from last night even on a long holiday weekend. (Some of us poor bastards have to work today after all.)

Anyway, proceed.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:26 am

On that Christie beached whale thing, when does New Jersey riot and force that beach open? That's such a brazen 'fuck you' to everyone in that state that enjoyed going to that beach.

What's the reason behind that beach being closed in the first place?

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:33 am

Johnnie wrote:On that Christie beached whale thing, when does New Jersey riot and force that beach open? That's such a brazen 'fuck you' to everyone in that state that enjoyed going to that beach.

What's the reason behind that beach being closed in the first place?

Budget fight between Christie and state senate has led to a government shutdown of "non-essential" services. That's a state controlled beach, but most of the beaches are under municipal control and not closed.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:17 am

Gotcha. Something in that vein happened in Arizona where rest stops all over the state had to be closed. It sucked because of how much road travel families did to visit places and they couldn't pull over to stretch/go to the bathroom/grab a snack..etc. Once the budget was adjusted, they were able to open back up. Everyone rejoiced.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:24 am

Holy Shit Illinois!

Three years without a state budget? Huh?!

Post by **brian** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:36 am

Pruitt wrote:Holy Shit Illinois!

Three years without a state budget? Huh?!

At this point they can't even sell multi-state lottery tickets (i.e. Powerball) because they're not certain they have the money to pay a winner if it came from Illinois.

Post by **brian** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:31 pm

Hillary Clinton is out of fucks to give. I wish this person had run for president.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:30 pm

Are democrats finally embracing the meme war to combat the meme president and his army of pepes?

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:53 am

Asshole Congressman Violates Auschwitz Protocol

A bizarre five minute guided tour (one is supposed to remain silent while walking the grounds). I'll save you the trouble of watching it. But at 4:44 he gets to his punch line. He has a "commitment, to make damn sure the United States of America is protected from the evils of the world."

Surreal.

Baloney · Post by **Baloney** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:50 am

Pruitt wrote:Asshole Congressman Violates Auschwitz Protocol

A bizarre five minute guided tour (one is supposed to remain silent while walking the grounds). I'll save you the trouble of watching it. But at 4:44 he gets to his punch line. He has a "commitment, to make damn sure the United States of America is protected from the evils of the world."

Surreal.

He even got the gas pellets wrong, the fucking moron

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:24 pm

Henry Rollins is the fucking man.

America's Real Safety Net Is Drugs, Alcohol, Cheap Food and Free Porn

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:32 am

Going back to the 20% vs. 80% issue, this was a fascinating Reddit discussion from the weekend discussing the impact of a single arcane zoning regulation on the development patterns of an entire city (or, as another Swamper put it, why The Rent Is Too Damn High in L.A.):

Comments are worth your time too.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:36 am

From the comments, there was this equally interesting piece which found that the city of Somerville, MA has enacted a zoning code under which all but 22 of its existing residential buildings are illegal even without regard to parking regulations (which would probably knock out the remaining 22):

http://cityobservatory.org/the-illegal- ... omerville/

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:54 am

Author is either misinformed or disingenuous there: "Somerville is the kind of in-between density that you’ll often hear people praise: compact enough to walk to stores and friends’ houses, but with virtually no buildings over four floors, lots of trees and yards, and a mix of small apartment buildings and single-family homes."

Even without many 5+ story buildings, Somerville is one of the most densely populated areas in the entire country.

P.D.X. · Post by **P.D.X.** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:24 am

Requiring parking spaces is pretty absurd. Developers know their market and wouldn't trip up on something as basic as parking.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:34 am

Yeah, we lived in a 6 family house with 4 parking spots and they had trouble selling the spots because it was unnecessary. In four years, we never had to park off the closest street to us because people just don't need cars there.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:42 am

I read the author's point as being more qualitative than quantitative, saying that "here is a way to make things a lot more dense than they are in most places in the US, without being Manhattan".

Though it could just be that the writer is from NYC, as I assume all writers on the internet are.

DSafetyGuy · Post by **DSafetyGuy** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:25 am

the overwhelming majority of people do not take public transportation in Los Angeles, in large part because everything is so spread out and there is very limited subway service. I just looked at directions from my old apartment to Staples Center in downtown LA. Traffic as rush hour is starting to wind down (9:20am) lists driving time as 29 minutes for 12.8 miles, but taking public transportation involved walking to a bus stop, taking a bus, walking to the train station, taking the train, then walking to the destination... for a 59-minute trip, including 12 minutes walking.

And that's a much shorter commute than what a lot of people do.

While the subway system is expanding, it does so at such a slow rate (construction time, fighting neighborhood associations, Beverly HIlls refusing to have a station within its city limits, etc.), so I don't think taking public transportation will ever be part of widespread culture there.

So, parking is pretty much a requirement for apartment buildings. Of the four different places I lived in LA, there was always a "one parking spot per bedroom" policy and one of my places had room for two cars.

Johnny Carwash · Post by **Johnny Carwash** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:44 pm

So this was totally Syb, right?