NFL Week 11

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:22 pm

Jim Harbaughs head might explode first. He just made 2 awful challenges.

Niners have no challenges left for the remaining 40 minutes of the game.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:36 pm

The Saints INT... I think the player is down by contact when the interception occurs

huge review in progress.

as always: joe buck doesn't have a clue.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:42 pm

Another aspect of the Saints INT ignored by the announcers, was the ball fumbled out of bounds before the goal line rather than through the end zone. Because (clearly, and the opposite of what they said) the ball went out of bounds, not through the back of the end zone.

ETA: Saints corner Corey White cannot buy a break.

Post by **brian** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:22 pm

Horrible call in this Niners-Saints game on that personal foul. This is honestly why football will be dead in 15-20 years. This is pussy ass shit at this point. Might as well play with flags.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:20 pm

You have to have it one way or another. Either you can hit the QB or you cannot hit him. These half-measures are absurd.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:30 pm

How about you can only hit* the qb in the chest.

*not really hit, just hug.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:00 pm

brian wrote:Yup. Lem Barney was a Hall of Famer on and off the field.

Sanders and Johnson are undeniably world class. But when I was young, my favorites were Lem Barney and his predecessor, Dick "Night Train" Lane. It's impossible to compare football players across generations, but these guys defined world class at cornerback in their eras.

Check this stat from Night Train Lane's rookie season. 14 interceptions. In 12 games. And they weren't throwing as much back in those days. He was said to have created the cornerback blitz and was a ferocious clothesline tackler.

Also, by far the coolest wife, jazz singer Dinah Washington. [Check the cameo appearance by the hipster actor.]

Dinah Washington cut a great version of "Night Train." But I believe that Dick Lane picked up that nickname before he met her, based on Jimmy Forrest's hit version of the song.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:03 pm

degenerasian wrote:How about you can only hit* the qb in the chest.

*not really hit, just hug.

Someday it may be enough to just tag the QB. Technology may make this fool proof, so at least the call will be undebatable.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:04 pm

howard wrote:You have to have it one way or another. Either you can hit the QB or you cannot hit him. These half-measures are absurd.

They'll figure this stuff out in the next few years and it won't be a big deal. They have no choice, really. The head injury issue isn't going to be magically swept away by technology or anything else.

Further, the product they want to display is an airshow. And they want to schedule more games, not fewer. So to maximize the money, they need to create rules that will keep their star QB's in the game. It won't trouble the NFL that some old-timers whine about how the game has changed for the worst because QB's are treated like fine china.

howard · Post by **howard** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:09 am

Congrats brian and Matt. Cumulative score tomorrow night 49 or less, brian's pot. 50 or more, Matt's.

(other thread is locked)

Post by **brian** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:16 am

I bet my $40 on the Chefs which I wanted no part with but thus is the rule of the hedge. Got two free beer tickets. $110 tomorrow ought to blow their mind. (And I have a small play for scoop-48 or 49)

Post by **brian** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:29 am

If I was a baller. Which I am not. Mighta. Saved the $40 & killed the over. But.

Post by **brian** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:32 am

Hav. Crazy messed up nonsense. Long live alcohol.

rass · Post by **rass** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:27 am

brian wrote:Horrible call in this Niners-Saints game on that personal foul. This is honestly why football will be dead in 15-20 years. This is pussy ass shit at this point. Might as well play with flags.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:19 am

brian wrote:Horrible call in this Niners-Saints game on that personal foul. This is honestly why football will be dead in 15-20 years. This is pussy ass shit at this point. Might as well play with flags.

Couldn't agree more. At this rate, every hit on a QB will soon be reviewed by the booth. And to make it worse, that call swung the result of the game.

Loved the Bills - Jets game yesterday. And while the Jets are still in the driver's seat, they may want to look at drafting a QB this spring.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:14 pm

I didn't see this discussed anywhere. Interesting.

Redskins' Trent Williams says that Officials were verbally abusing him during game

Williams told reporters that the “refs were getting in their heads … They were unprofessional. [Calling Williams a] Garbage-a– disrespectful mother f—…”

Williams singled out umpire Roy Ellison by number, according to CSN Washington.

Several other Redskins reporters confirmed this, adding that while Williams’ teammates told him to stop criticizing the officials, Williams said that the NFL is a players’ league, and what Coleman’s crew did was wrong. According to ESPN’s John Keim, guard Kory Lichtensteiger backed Williams’ account of the events.

“I’ve never heard anything like that before in my life,” Lichtensteiger said. “I don’t know what it was, but that guy came out with some kind of vendetta. I don’t have a lot else to say, but I heard that comment.”

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:32 pm

brian wrote:I bet my $40 on the Chefs which I wanted no part with but thus is the rule of the hedge. Got two free beer tickets. $110 tomorrow ought to blow their mind. (And I have a small play for scoop-48 or 49)

Gambling gods are this way... when you hedge you would have won outright. When you don't hedge you lose.

HaulCitgo · Post by **HaulCitgo** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:50 pm

Win or lose, best the Pats have looked this year. Vereen changes a lot. This offense is getting back to where they've been. Ifs and buts... but this team would be unbelievable if they still had the DTs and MLB. Funny how you start totally dependent upon the defense and then you change into something totally different by the end.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:56 pm

That was an BS "no-call" on the final play.

Post by **brian** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Rush2112 wrote:That was an BS "no-call" on the final play.

Yeah you're probably right. The worst part is they actually threw the flag. I kinda get a no call. I don't get throwing a flag and picking it up.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:03 am

brian wrote:
Rush2112 wrote:That was an BS "no-call" on the final play.
Yeah you're probably right. The worst part is they actually threw the flag. I kinda get a no call. I don't get throwing a flag and picking it up.

Ya, they don't typically call PI on "hail mary" plays, but if you're going to say he had no chance of catching you gotta take into account the fact he was being held from coming back to the ball.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:16 am

Rush2112 wrote:That was an BS "no-call" on the final play.

100%

The announcer (can't remember which one) said that since the ball was underthrown and Gronkowski could not have caught it, that picking up the flag for Pass Interference was the right thing to do.

But Gronkowski was blatantly mugged on the play. The call should have been illegal contact.

That was a replacement ref calibre move.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:03 am

I hate when announcers make it seem like that hold the ball through the process of the catch thing is the Calvin Johnson rule. Like every fucking time it happens they automatically have to talk about Calvin Johnson. The first time I saw that call made was in Arizona on Hines Ward about 2 years before Calvin did it and the media decided it deserved a federal investigation just because Calvin Johnson didn't know the fucking rule.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:04 am

But Calvin's a star and not just a gritty role player.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:09 am

He is very good at American rules football.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:23 am

Pruitt wrote:
The announcer (can't remember which one) said that since the ball was underthrown and Gronkowski could not have caught it, that picking up the flag for Pass Interference was the right thing to do.

That was Gerry Austin...former ref.

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:28 am

What I hate most is that they didn't explain anything. Just that there was no foul on the play and goodbye.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:33 am

Well it's because it was "uncatchable."

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:37 am

Wait, you really think he could have caught that ball? That's something that's up for debate?

What I hate most is that they didn't explain anything. Just that there was no foul on the play and goodbye.

This is the real issue and Belichick has every right to be angry about that. I've seen it happen a few times this year where they throw the flag, actually call the foul, and then just decide not to enforce the penalty without saying a word about it. I don't know why they think that's acceptable.

The Sybian · Post by **The Sybian** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:38 am

brian wrote:
Rush2112 wrote:That was an BS "no-call" on the final play.
Yeah you're probably right. The worst part is they actually threw the flag. I kinda get a no call. I don't get throwing a flag and picking it up.

I don't think the official (back judge?) who threw the flag is tasked with determining whether the ball was catchable, just if there is illegal contact. It is another official, in a better position, who is tasked with determining whether the ball was catchable. Happens all the time, and I think it is the best way to handle it. Usually this happens on a play where the ball is over thrown, and not on the final play of the game in the endzone, so it doesn't get much attention.

I totally think it is the right call, but most refs would probably puss out on picking up the flag. No way in hell Gronk can stop and cut back towards the ball on that play if he isn't interfered with. Holding is called regardless of whether the ball is catchable, as it occurs before the ball is thrown. This makes sense, as holding is usually done to prevent the receiver from getting open. Right call, suck it, Pats.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:40 am

I don't think there was any real chance of him catching that ball, but he still should have been afforded the opportunity. However, calling the penalty basically gives the Patriots a 75% chance of winning the game, and I don't think they wanted that either. Sooooo holding? Yeah go with that.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:59 am

So as he runs toward the spot the ball is thrown Kuechly faceguards/holds/pushes him toward the back of the endzone as he tries to make a move on the ball, there are 3 different penalties you could call there.

And Syb you've already won a couple of games on BS ref calls, there is no suck it involved.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:05 am

You'd have to make faceguarding an actual penalty before you call it.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:07 am

Gunpowder wrote:You'd have to make faceguarding an actual penalty before you call it.

It's legal when no contact is made, sort of looks like contact there my friend.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:15 am

Even if Kuechly wasn't there, how do you propose that Gronkowski gets in front of Lester?

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:15 am

Pruitt wrote:
Rush2112 wrote:That was an BS "no-call" on the final play.
100%

The announcer (can't remember which one) said that since the ball was underthrown and Gronkowski could not have caught it, that picking up the flag for Pass Interference was the right thing to do.

But Gronkowski was blatantly mugged on the play. The call should have been illegal contact.

That was a replacement ref calibre move.

Oh, and...Really? Fucking, really?

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:21 am

Jerloma wrote:Even if Kuechly wasn't there, how do you propose that Gronkowski gets in front of Lester?

He has inside position on him at the L in the endzone Kuechly's "non-penalty" doesn't allow him to keep that position and pushes him away from the ball.

Even if this isn't called PI, it's at least a holding call. The play that McCourty got called for holding was basically the same thing aside from the INT. Ball wasn't catchable because of the defender impeding the receiver from getting to the ball (though Olson sold the hold, and might have been guilty of holding himself.)

I read somewhere it was basically like Kuechly was boxing him out on a basketball court. That's legal. The bear hug is what makes it illegal, in basketball and in football.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:24 am

Ah, Jerloma wonder how'd you react if this was Heath Miller and not a Patriot.

Jerloma · Post by **Jerloma** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:34 am

Rush2112 wrote:Ah, Jerloma wonder how'd you react if this was Heath Miller and not a Patriot.

I'd think it was the right call and I'd be pissed that they didn't provide an explanation and even more pissed that Ben threw such a shitty pass but I'm glad to see that New England persecution complex of yours is still intact.

Rush2112 · Post by **Rush2112** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:44 am

That is pure and utter bullshit. Didn't you break your tv over a call?

It's not a "persecution" complex it's getting something correct.

When the guy making the call is wishy-washy about it:

[When asked about the call]

Clete Blakeman wrote:Yeah, in review, yeah. I think so.Yeah, in review, yeah. I think so. I’m pleased that…well, two situations. You never like to end the game with some controversy like that on a call, but I’m pleased that our officiating crew got together and communicated and discussed it and, ultimately, I believe we got it right.

I THINK SO? In a call that decides a game you better be more than "I think so."

You can argue semantics over if it was PI or not, but it was at least defensive holding and a much more egregious example than the holding call that took place on the previous Carolina drive.

So this is holding

and what happened in the end zone isn't?