Growing the soccer fanbase in America

[Sabo]

Keith Olbermann has seven ways to grow soccer in the US, according to Deadspin.

Here's his list:

1. Stop imitating European fandom
2. Groom a great American soccer announcer
3. Stop being shitheads to new and casual fans
4. Remember it's just a sport, not some mystical experience
5. Stop imitating European team naming conventions
6. Have as little to do with FIFA as possible
7. Use video games to grow youth participation

My comments:

1. I'm not sure what this means. Not singing? Replace the singing with brass bands and drums? Because it it's the latter he can go fuck off at any time.

2. I agree 1,000 percent. And Gus Johnson isn't the answer. Leave him to do MMA and basketball.

3. This is really no different than baseball fans who go on and on about VORP, FIP and win shares. Every sport has a superfan base and a casual base. I don't think American soccer fans have been any harder on casual fans than any other sport.

4. Hey Keith, while you're at it, please tell the NFL and its fans the same damn thing. Not everything the NFL does is worthy of the NFL Films treatment.

5. This is such a minor thing I have no idea why it's on the list. Not every team needs a fucking mascot. I'd rather see something like Atlanta FC than something stupid like the Atlanta Silverbacks.

6. Good luck with that. Although I think most soccer fans would love to see FIFA go away, it isn't happening any time soon. If people are turning a blind eye to laborer deaths in Qatar and Brazil and the ludicrous benefits FIFA demands to host the World Cup (again, something the NFL does too), I can't see things changing much.

7. Isn't EA's FIFA one of the most popular video games in the world? Has there been any evidence that it's increased participation in the US?

Thoughts?

[brian]

Thoughts?

Olbermann doesn't realize that he's stealing Rick Reilly's schtick.

[A_B]

#3 is real, or it was when I was first getting into soccer. People in Lexington that knew soccer already were annoyed when people would show up at bars for world cup games in 1998 that didn't know much abotu the team. Not as much in 2002 because the matches were on at weird times and i wasn't at bars, but in 98 there were the guys with the scarves who were definitely annoyed with a group I was with at a bar a couple of times.

It doesnt' seem as bad these days, and I've genuinely tried to explain tactics to a few of the guys here in the office who showed interest. ONe watched the game with me yesterday.

Then he took this picture in extra time..hope he can care that much next time around:

[P.D.X.]

Drivel. Not a single point on growing the popularity and quality of the domestic leagues. (Which should be #1)

[degenerasian]

What if JP Dellacamera was the play-by-play guy now and not 25 years ago.
If they could groom him, they could easily groom another one.

[SportsDoc]

As a new fan. #3 is appropriate. I have been treated great here and given quality information on the game from all of you without any shit. Rest seem like Bullshit. It will take care of itself.

I have 2 more questions: 1) Do they play soccer no matter what weather-wise? do the ever play soccer on artificial turf? I know some colleges do, wondering about world wide and MLS.

As for me, I have thoroughly enjoy watching offensive plays develop. I especially like seeing the weak side wing (hockey reference) drive to the net seeking a pass and how accurate the passing actually is into that crowded area.

[Sabo]

I have 2 more questions: 1) Do they play soccer no matter what weather-wise?

For the most part. I think games are delayed for lightning. If you want to see how a game looks in the snow, google "Snow Clasico".

do the ever play soccer on artificial turf? I know some colleges do, wondering about world wide and MLS.

Lots of MLS teams play on the fake stuff. At this point, there might be more artificial turf stadia than natural grass in MLS. But I think artificial surfaces are pretty rare elsewhere.

As for me, I have thoroughly enjoy watching offensive plays develop. I especially like seeing the weak side wing (hockey reference) drive to the net seeking a pass and how accurate the passing actually is into that crowded area.

If you enjoy that stuff, then soccer is a game for you. The trick with enjoying the beauty of soccer is to not watch the ball. Watch all of the other players movements off the ball and you'll understand how complicated the game is.

[P.D.X.]

I have 2 more questions: 1) Do they play soccer no matter what weather-wise? do the ever play soccer on artificial turf? I know some colleges do, wondering about world wide and MLS.

1) Yes. Only time you'll commonly see delays is for lightning. To wit:




2) Yes. Off the top of my head, about 50% of MLS stadiums are on field turf. The fields vary in quality. You can gauge the snobbiness of any footy fans by how much they look down on this.

[mister d]

Casual fan vantage point: Very dumb list.

1. I see this as part of the appeal; foreign soccer fans seem like they have an awesome (and very different from US sport) existence.

2. Either way. Good announcing is good.

3. True, but also true of literally every hobby or interest in the world.

4. Didn't Olbermann grow up holding the Yankees in mystical esteem?

5. Dumb. Agree w/ Sabo's point.

6. They seem like a bad org but I have no idea how feasible that is. Like telling UConn to have little to do with the NCAA?

7. Already done. Well documented.

[degenerasian]

That's the trick in hockey as well. Don't watch the puck.

People complain they can't see the puck, you don't need to see the puck. Just watch where all the players are going.

The magic of soccer is nothing is happening but something is always happening. Soccer fans can't cannot take their eyes off the screen for 45 minutes straight.

[Johnny Carwash]

1. Stop imitating European fandom

Dead. Fucking. Wrong. The MLS's trend toward this in the last decade or so has done a lot to improve the health of the league after a rocky start, by cultivating its audience from people predisposed to liking the game as it is rather than forcing it on people who have little interest in being converted. The reverse--trying too hard to "Americanize" the sport--played a part in limiting the staying power of previous attempts like the NASL.

2. Groom a great American soccer announcer

OK, if you mean a generally respected announcer a la Vin Scully, Al Michaels, etc. who happens to specialize in soccer. The wider issue here is that there are very few announcers under 60 anyone likes. And if you think this is Gus Johnson, please eat a cornucopia of dicks.

3. Stop being shitheads to new and casual fans

OK, I'll stop treating new and casual fans the way Keith Olbermann treats all other human beings.

4. Remember it's just a sport, not some mystical experience

You mean don't do that thing every other sports league does to market itself?

5. Stop imitating European team naming conventions

No, I like it, even if it's a little cheesy. "Real Salt Lake" is so insanely hubristic it actually kind of works.

6. Have as little to do with FIFA as possible

What does this mean? I don't think anyone "wants" anything to do with FIFA.

7. Use video games to grow youth participation

I get the impression this already plays a large part.

[mister d]

Also as an outsider: There is nothing less appealing than something that works to include you to the annoyance / exclusion of the real fans. Shock Top is not craft beer.

[The Sybian]

As a new fan. #3 is appropriate. I have been treated great here and given quality information on the game from all of you without any shit. Rest seem like Bullshit. It will take care of itself.

I have 2 more questions: 1) Do they play soccer no matter what weather-wise? do the ever play soccer on artificial turf? I know some colleges do, wondering about world wide and MLS.

As for me, I have thoroughly enjoy watching offensive plays develop. I especially like seeing the weak side wing (hockey reference) drive to the net seeking a pass and how accurate the passing actually is into that crowded area.

I think the World Cup adds American fans every time around. Especially when the US do well. I remember in 2002, when the US advanced from the group, it was suddenly all over ESPN, and people were talking. I think the Algeria winner did a tremendous amount to get people talking. Now look at the huge public showings. Grant Park had massive crowds of passionate fans. The cool looking place in KC was rocking, several venues like theaters (plays, not movie) were hosting viewing events. Bars were packed all over the country. I love it. I love the enthusiasm. I love the large number of people in my Facebook feed posting about games.

[brian]

As a new fan. #3 is appropriate. I have been treated great here and given quality information on the game from all of you without any shit. Rest seem like Bullshit. It will take care of itself.

I have 2 more questions: 1) Do they play soccer no matter what weather-wise? do the ever play soccer on artificial turf? I know some colleges do, wondering about world wide and MLS.

As for me, I have thoroughly enjoy watching offensive plays develop. I especially like seeing the weak side wing (hockey reference) drive to the net seeking a pass and how accurate the passing actually is into that crowded area.

I think the World Cup adds American fans every time around. Especially when the US do well. I remember in 2002, when the US advanced from the group, it was suddenly all over ESPN, and people were talking. I think the Algeria winner did a tremendous amount to get people talking. Now look at the huge public showings. Grant Park had massive crowds of passionate fans. The cool looking place in KC was rocking, several venues like theaters (plays, not movie) were hosting viewing events. Bars were packed all over the country. I love it. I love the enthusiasm. I love the large number of people in my Facebook feed posting about games.

It's kind of like a snowball rolling down hill. Even this WC compared to 2010 the difference in the crowds and ratings is amazing. (Some of it could be because of better times for the games though, which we're going to get fucked on again in 2018 and 2022.)

[Steve of phpBB]

I don't see any need to grow the fanbase.

All the games I want to see are on TV, and it is hard enough already for me to get good cheap tickets to RSL games.

OK, MLS doesn't get the attention that MLB, NBA, or the NFL, but so what?

[P.D.X.]

I don't see any need to grow the fanbase.

I do. Because a higher profile sport garners the attention of top athletes and improves the national talent pool.

And I want to win a WC in my lifetime.

[Ryan]

I don't see any need to grow the fanbase.

I do. Because a higher profile sport garners the attention of top athletes and improves the national talent pool.

And I want to win a WC in my lifetime.

Then, by extension, you should want teams to have city-nickname naming conventions, which leads to mascots, which leads to kids, which leads to money.

[brian]

I think the most important factor that everyone tends to gloss over is how strong MLS is compared to even four years ago. The NASL lasted about as long as MLS has been around, but was obviously in a death spiral for the last few years. By comparison MLS seems to be in it for the long haul.

I personally don't think having a strong domestic league is as important to national team success as some people (it's not like the top Brazilian and Argentine players all play in their own domestic leagues, nor do the Belgians obviously) but there has to be something to having that there to develop your depth. I think that's the biggest difference MLS has had is as a tool to develop players that would likely have been overlooked in second-tier European leagues. Theoretically, this should only improve as the quality of MLS develops. I don't think it's crazy to think by the end of the decade, MLS could be on a par with the second-tier European leagues like Portugal, Holland and France.

[Jerloma]

I know that the "real" fans would hate it but I honestly think that the only way to do it is by tweaking the rules to make scoring more prominent. I enjoyed the shit out of those games but it's really just because it's such a huge event. I like watching Michael Phelps swim too but not more than every four years.

[Gunpowder]

I think part of the reason I care (or am at least trying to care) now has been the coverage by Grantland and Deadspin. The storylines that I was previously unaware of were very interesting.

[brian]

I know that the "real" fans would hate it but I honestly think that the only way to do it is by tweaking the rules to make scoring more prominent. I enjoyed the shit out of those games but it's really just because it's such a huge event. I like watching Michael Phelps swim too but not more than every four years.

Honestly, it's like anything. It helps to have a rooting interest. I can't get as invested in MLS because there is no team in Detroit or Las Vegas. Were either of those cities to get a team, I'd have something to follow.

ETA: I just don't understand how anyone can root for a team in any sport that isn't where they're from or where they live. I "root" for Portland in MLS because I like their coach and the atmosphere at Jeld-Wen, but the truth is a really don't care when they win or lose.

[P.D.X.]

I personally don't think having a strong domestic league is as important to national team success as some people (it's not like the top Brazilian and Argentine players all play in their own domestic leagues, nor do the Belgians obviously)

The sports and economic landscapes of the US vs Brazil/Argentina are so drastically different it's hardly fair to compare them.

The US needs a strong domestic league to provide an opportunity for athletes that would otherwise go into football and basketball. Other countries don't have this problem.

[Johnnie]

I don't see any need to grow the fanbase.

I do. Because a higher profile sport garners the attention of top athletes and improves the national talent pool.

And I want to win a WC in my lifetime.

Then, basically, you want America to stay in Germany for as long as humanly possible so that American service members impregnate the female populace here and create kids that won't want to play other sports.

Kind of like what the Moors did to Sicily. Except the footie version.

I do find it odd that the third most populated nation on the planet isn't able to run roughshod over this tournament, but that's because we have options that are more fiscally desirable.

[Jerloma]

ETA: I just don't understand how anyone can root for a team in any sport that isn't where they're from or where they live. I "root" for Portland in MLS because I like their coach and the atmosphere at Jeld-Wen, but the truth is a really don't care when they win or lose.

Do you want to have anything in common with these assholes?

[Rex]

I think it will just take for more old people to die and more babies to be born, really.

[Rex]

No but really, I think there's a divide at around age 45 where everyone below that age grew up in a world where the U.S. qualifies for World Cups and the World Cup was on TV. I'm not saying that everyone below 45 is a fan, but they know enough people who are fans that they don't think it's weird or something that has to be examined like Olbermann is doing. There's probably another divide in the late teens/early 20s of people who don't even remember the world before MLS and who don't think of it as an experiment but rather something that has always existed.

[SportsDoc]

I know that the "real" fans would hate it but I honestly think that the only way to do it is by tweaking the rules to make scoring more prominent. I enjoyed the shit out of those games but it's really just because it's such a huge event. I like watching Michael Phelps swim too but not more than every four years.

... and, we can't smell the chlorine on TV, which is nice.

[SportsDoc]

I think Rex has very valid points. My Dad (85) wouldn't watch soccer if you paid him. Myself, at 61, I am trying to wrap my head around the sport. My brother at 46 grew up playing soccer, even in college and has always been a fan. I suspect my 6 Grand kids (ages 1 to 8) will think of soccer as a major sport by the time they are adults. It seems to be an evolutionary and generational change in the USA.

It certainly helps right now that ESPN seems to have put all its chips in the middle on soccer broadcasts and coverage of this World Cup. I suspect they will increase their coverage in the future, too.

[Nonlinear FC]

As a new fan. #3 is appropriate. I have been treated great here and given quality information on the game from all of you without any shit. Rest seem like Bullshit. It will take care of itself.

I have 2 more questions: 1) Do they play soccer no matter what weather-wise? do the ever play soccer on artificial turf? I know some colleges do, wondering about world wide and MLS.

As for me, I have thoroughly enjoy watching offensive plays develop. I especially like seeing the weak side wing (hockey reference) drive to the net seeking a pass and how accurate the passing actually is into that crowded area.

I think the World Cup adds American fans every time around. Especially when the US do well. I remember in 2002, when the US advanced from the group, it was suddenly all over ESPN, and people were talking. I think the Algeria winner did a tremendous amount to get people talking. Now look at the huge public showings. Grant Park had massive crowds of passionate fans. The cool looking place in KC was rocking, several venues like theaters (plays, not movie) were hosting viewing events. Bars were packed all over the country. I love it. I love the enthusiasm. I love the large number of people in my Facebook feed posting about games.

I think it was around 2000 or so, I started frequenting the message boards over at bigsoccer.com. Finding that place was like opening a door you thought led to a garage, and instead leads you into a secret, beautiful new landscape. I had no idea there were so many people that cared so much. I made Internet Friends with dozens of people, eventually leading to meet ups for NT games in Columbus, DC, Birmingham, Chicago, NYC... I attended 2 weddings and still "talk" to some of those folks just about every day.

But, and I promise I have a point to make, at some point bigsoccer'ites became insufferable. I don't know when, exactly, but at some point I started referring to a lot of those folks as Soccer Trekkies. So many folks were a lot more concerned with winning an argument, than actually, you know... Cheering and supporting the team. For them, like Trekkies, the product on the field (screen) wasn't the primary driver or motivation for watching. It was all about each individual person proving how much smarter they were than everyone else. That's not why I watch sports. I will absolutely debate line-ups and tactics, but not to prove anything to anyone.

Taking it a step further are the various supporters groups. In some cases, they take that "all about me" attitude to the next level, thinking the supporters groups are more important than anyone else in the stadium. That the atmosphere they provide is vital to the success not only of the team, but of the overall franchise. Their sense of entitlement would be laughable, if it weren't for the fact that management is often scared shitless of pissing them off. But these groups, at times, have been more of a pain in the ass than an asset.

The overarching point is that every sport has know it all fans. But there's something a little different about soccer support in this country. It's starting to shift, because the younger the supporters become, the "back in my day" voice will be less prevalent. You still have too many oldheads being pricks to ppl who bandwagon every four years. I will never understand that mentality. In an era where things are skewing heavily towards less communal activity, don't shit on one of the few things that brings us together.

But in a list that is mostly full of bullshit, this is the one thing that will hold back the popularity of the sport. If you love a movie, or a musician, or a book... Don't you love sharing that with someone, and they get hooked or appreciate it along with you?

[brian]

It certainly helps right now that ESPN seems to have put all its chips in the middle on soccer broadcasts and coverage of this World Cup. I suspect they will increase their coverage in the future, too.

Anyone else want to break the bad news to SportsDoc on this point? You're a huge hockey fan I know. Remember how ESPN kind of forgot the NHL existed when they lost the rights to it? Well....that's about to happen again.

[Shirley]

As far as generational awareness, I have this nugget.

I have happily watched a lot of games over the past two weeks with my 10-year-old son (the other son sort of comes and goes - mostly goes). We don't normally watch too much sports on TV together, so this has been fun. Now, other than the last World Cup, we NEVER watch soccer. Both boys play it and like it, but they have no knowledge (or so I thought) about pro soccer other than a jersey or two each has (gifts or something we picked up traveling).

Well, as I've watched the games, my son has said things like "oh, that's David Luiz, he plays for XXX (I forgot which club he said)". He's done this about probably a dozen players - not just Messi or Ronaldo.

Apparently he's learned this about these players from talking to other kids at school.

So, there you go - in Cary, NC, 5th graders are talking about Euro and South American footballers like the rest of us talked about Joe Montana or whoever when we were kids.

Things have very much changed over the past 5-10 years, even if Mike & Mike, Dan Patrick, Keith Olbermann, etc. have apparently not noticed.

[Gunpowder]

I don't see any need to grow the fanbase.

I do. Because a higher profile sport garners the attention of top athletes and improves the national talent pool.

And I want to win a WC in my lifetime.

Then, basically, you want America to stay in Germany for as long as humanly possible so that American service members impregnate the female populace here and create kids that won't want to play other sports.

Kind of like what the Moors did to Sicily. Except the footie version.

I do find it odd that the third most populated nation on the planet isn't able to run roughshod over this tournament, but that's because we have options that are more fiscally desirable.

That is true here, but Ronaldo makes way more than any American pro athlete.

[Nonlinear FC]

No but really, I think there's a divide at around age 45 where everyone below that age grew up in a world where the U.S. qualifies for World Cups and the World Cup was on TV. I'm not saying that everyone below 45 is a fan, but they know enough people who are fans that they don't think it's weird or something that has to be examined like Olbermann is doing. There's probably another divide in the late teens/early 20s of people who don't even remember the world before MLS and who don't think of it as an experiment but rather something that has always existed.

This.

Coulter aside, I've heard from a number of people that the rising popularity of the sport is due to shifting ethnic demographics due to immigration.

Well, if you look at those reaction videos from bars and public places from around the US... Along with the ratings... That theory is just blown out of the water. In particular, look how young those crowds are.

[degenerasian]

That's awesome. They know these players from talking at school and from video games.

Back when I was a kid I'd probably be shunned in school if I knew who Michel Platini was and admitted it.
Canada qualified for the World Cup when I was in grade 5 and nobody knew a single player on that team. Every American kid today knows who Tim Howard is plus a host of other players and who they play for.

[Nonlinear FC]

As far as generational awareness, I have this nugget.

I have happily watched a lot of games over the past two weeks with my 10-year-old son (the other son sort of comes and goes - mostly goes). We don't normally watch too much sports on TV together, so this has been fun. Now, other than the last World Cup, we NEVER watch soccer. Both boys play it and like it, but they have no knowledge (or so I thought) about pro soccer other than a jersey or two each has (gifts or something we picked up traveling).

Well, as I've watched the games, my son has said things like "oh, that's David Luiz, he plays for XXX (I forgot which club he said)". He's done this about probably a dozen players - not just Messi or Ronaldo.

Apparently he's learned this about these players from talking to other kids at school.

So, there you go - in Cary, NC, 5th graders are talking about Euro and South American footballers like the rest of us talked about Joe Montana or whoever when we were kids.

Things have very much changed over the past 5-10 years, even if Mike & Mike, Dan Patrick, Keith Olbermann, etc. have apparently not noticed.

My son (16) is a huge fan of Odemwingie. He learned about him from playing FIFA on his Xbox. He knows more about teams in Europe than I do, at least in terms of rosters. (Which, as was mentioned before, really takes a crap on Olberman's video game point.)

[Gunpowder]

I also got over the "SCORE A FUCKING GOAL!" mentality this time around. The games entertained me without the need for a goal to be scored. Mexico/Argentina was great radio.

[mister d]

Back when I was a kid I'd probably be shunned in school if I knew who Michel Platini was and admitted it.

Yeah. Spearhead sucks.

[Rex]

I don't remember ever having a conversation about soccer players with anyone in school, and believe me, sports was practically all we talked about. So that's very different.

[Rush2112]

Then, basically, you want America to stay in Germany for as long as humanly possible so that American service members impregnate the female populace here and create kids that won't want to play other sports.

i.e Johnnie wants to lay some black pipe.

[Shirley]

You guys are right that it's probably the FIFA game that is creating all of this knowledge in kids. I think that's been a huge part of the growth of soccer fandom and understanding in the States. I remember reading about how Kevin Garnett is a big soccer fan and owns jerseys and watches EPL games. I think it said that it started for him with the FIFA game.