Tony Stewart

EdRomero · Post by **EdRomero** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:21 am

So he may have murdered someone with his car. I checked Sportcenter bu Johnny Manziel played in an exhibition game.

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:48 am

Here's a quick link. I'm scouring for more. Twitter is on it. SportsCenter isn't.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:04 am

Bronto just posted an article on Yahoo. Stewart hit another driver, who was walking, but I haven't seen any articles that mentioned the guy's condition.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:19 am

Johnnie wrote:Here's a quick link. I'm scouring for more. Twitter is on it. SportsCenter isn't.

If by "Twitter is on it" you mean "things are being flung wildly from every direction towards a wall in the hope that something sticks" then yes.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:11 am

Sheriff's Department says driver is dead.

This has been one interesting evening.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:00 am

Uh, yeah, by "twitter is on it" he means - that was where you found out pretty quickly and accurately that Tony Stewart is a murderer.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:29 am

Don't worry, espn is on it now.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:36 am

"Ray Rice's fist came away unscathed, you can start him Sunday"

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:50 am

Racing can defy logic

Post by **Shirley** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:41 am

What a crazy story. I've only seen one video and from that, I don't know how anyone can say for sure what Stewart's car did or didn't do before it hit that kid.

What is clear is that the kid was very pissed and he was going at Tony's car, which seems incredibly stupid. He was way down in the middle of the track, at night, in a black jumpsuit.

That said, if I remember correctly isn't Stewart known to be a pretty severe hothead? He's not really the kind of guy to just walk away or ignore a confrontation, right? I think it's pretty likely that he tried to gun his car and scare the kid, but obviously didn't pull that off correctly.

I'd like to see a different angle to see if things are easier to discern.

One thing is for 100% sure - that dude should not be racing today. Who the fuck competes in a sporting event a day after killing a man? That is fucked up right there.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:45 am

Tyler Graves, a sprint-car racer and friend of Ward's, told Sporting News in a phone interview that he was sitting in the Turn 1 grandstands and saw everything that happened.

"Tony pinched him into the frontstretch wall, a racing thing," Graves said. "The right rear tire went down, he spun on the exit of (Turn) 2. They threw the caution and everything was toned down. Kevin got out of his car. … He was throwing his arms up all over the place at Tony for most of the corner.

"I know Tony could see him. I know how you can see out of these cars. When Tony got close to him, he hit the throttle. When you hit a throttle on a sprint car, the car sets sideways. It set sideways, the right rear tire hit Kevin, Kevin was sucked underneath and was stuck under it for a second or two and then it threw him about 50 yards."

speculative, but man...

Post by **Shirley** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:00 am

Yeah, I read that, but I don't think the video makes it that clear at all. To me, it looked like this car swerved after he hit the kid, probably because there was a body under his back right tire. And the body wasn't flung nearly 50 yards. More like 15 feet or so.

I don't know about the acceleration. That might be clear in the video, but car guys would be able to tell better than I. I'm not sure how you could say a sound came from his car, when there were all of those other cars on the track. And even if he did accelerate, it could have been to avoid being hit by the kid as the kid was clearly trying to get to Tony's car - which is obviously very stupid.

All that said, the idea of still racing today just completely baffles me. What sort of sociopath thinks that way? I mean aren't you even a little upset that you killed a kid last night?

Johnnie · Post by **Johnnie** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:01 am

Uh, holy fuck.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:08 am

1. It's impossible to make a judgment off the video. It's a statement of what happened. Trust me. Please.

2. It's understandable why Stewart would want to race. It's a place where he can go focus for 4 hours

3. That said, is it a decision that Stewart should be making without any influence from a sport incredibly concerned with its image?

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:17 am

Isn't it a fact that crazy ass stuff like this happens at these small town tracks all the time and we just don't learn about it? I know I've seen a YouTube of a dude getting dragged 100 yards because he tried to get in the car.

garyclark · Post by **garyclark** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:24 am

The Swamp: where I come when I have no idea how to react to something that occurs in a sport about which I'm completely ignorant.

RIP to the 20 year-old kid.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:28 am

Dude on espn is doing everything short of wearing a "free tony Stewart" shirt

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:18 am

Link to bronto's story please?

ETA: nevermind.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-fr ... 04974.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My list of questions:

~NASCAR stars kill time on dirt tracks the night before cup races?
~When you go walking into traffic, don't you think you might get hit? (Intentionally or accidentally.)
~You kill someone with your car, (intentionally or accidentally) and you think 'I'll just go to work tomorrow like nothing happened? That is fucking weird; I won't try to spin that either way (evidence of a guilty mind vs escape from the shock and mental trauma of accidentally killing someone.)

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:02 pm

garyclark wrote:The Swamp: where I come when I have no idea how to react to something that occurs in a sport about which I'm completely ignorant.

RIP to the 20 year-old kid.

Ditto

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:16 pm

degenerasian wrote:
garyclark wrote:The Swamp: where I come when I have no idea how to react to something that occurs in a sport about which I'm completely ignorant.

RIP to the 20 year-old kid.

Ditto

me too, yet for some reason I just watched a video knowing that someone would die in it.

Serious question though - why is one of the most successful racers in the world driving at a backwoods track in those silly cars the night before a big race?

Does this often happen? To me it seems like an NFLer playing Arena football the day before a game.

rass · Post by **rass** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:31 pm

@NASCAR wrote:With heavy hearts, we turn our attention to today's #CheezIt355.
#NASCAR Countdown begins now on @ESPNNASCAR.

Post by **Shirley** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:02 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:1. It's impossible to make a judgment off the video. It's a statement of what happened. Trust me. Please.

2. It's understandable why Stewart would want to race. It's a place where he can go focus for 4 hours

3. That said, is it a decision that Stewart should be making without any influence from a sport incredibly concerned with its image?

1. What does that even mean? No, nobody can make a judgment of Stewart's intent from that video, but it says a lot better what happened than any articles folks might read.

I do find it funny though how many people have seen that and tweeted about what they "clearly" saw which doesn't appear there at all ("obvious" swerve into the kid, "obvious" engine gunning, etc.)

2. Bullshit. I bet Tony can find a million more appropriate places to focus for four hours. As Doc said, who could just go to work like a normal day less than 24 hours after running over and killing a person?

3. Yes, he absolutely should have made the right decision on his own. The way it shook out, there's no way to tell anymore how it was decided he wasn't going to race. NASCAR should have come to that decision on their own, but they shouldn't have had to.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:22 pm

Shirley wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:1. It's impossible to make a judgment off the video. It's a statement of what happened. Trust me. Please.

2. It's understandable why Stewart would want to race. It's a place where he can go focus for 4 hours

3. That said, is it a decision that Stewart should be making without any influence from a sport incredibly concerned with its image?
1. What does that even mean? No, nobody can make a judgment of Stewart's intent from that video, but it says a lot better what happened than any articles folks might read.

I do find it funny though how many people have seen that and tweeted about what they "clearly" saw which doesn't appear there at all ("obvious" swerve into the kid, "obvious" engine gunning, etc.)

It means what you typed. There are many, many, many people attempting to judge intent based off that video.

2. Bullshit. I bet Tony can find a million more appropriate places to focus for four hours. As Doc said, who could just go to work like a normal day less than 24 hours after running over and killing a person?

3. Yes, he absolutely should have made the right decision on his own. The way it shook out, there's no way to tell anymore how it was decided he wasn't going to race. NASCAR should have come to that decision on their own, but they shouldn't have had to.

Ultimately, he didn't race. But there have been numerous incidents and events that have happened where the justification is "the place where a driver wants to be in the race car." Is it something that you or I would do? I have no idea. I hope I'm never in that situation. But racing and racers are very very unique. Applying logic and rationality sometimes doesn't always work.

And to answer the questions about drivers going and racing at other tracks, not everyone does it, but it's a pretty common practice, especially among guys that have grown up racing sprint cars and on dirt tracks. (I saw Kyle Busch win a late model race the night before he drove in the Nationwide race at Indy two weeks ago. The NWide race was a day before the Cup race.)

It's not a perfect comparison, but for some people, think of it as a hobby that can also be practice. Unlike a sport like say, basketball, where you're playing in some form most every day during the season either via practice, game or shootaround, drivers are only really competing on race weekends in the Cup Series. So if they want to go get their racing fix that's not in a simulator, they go to other races.

Hell, Stewart broke his leg last year at a sprint car race.

There's a lot of debate about it. Should NASCAR drivers be allowed to compete in these local and regional non-NASCAR events? Should sponsors ask them not to? It was a point of contention after Stewart's injury and will continue to be one now. I'm not sure what the right answer is.

And unfortunately, that contention may come from a lot of people unfamiliar with NASCAR. The reactions and judgments by people who don't follow the sport on what can even be considered an irregular basis are sometimes infuriating. Not that people can't have a debate, but it's a debate best held by the people who are most informed about the issues.

Gunpowder · Post by **Gunpowder** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:25 pm

If you do something stupid like walk into a drug deal and say hi drug dealers and get murdered, isn't it still murder? Doesn't matter how stupid this kid was, he's already dead. Only relevant question is was this intentional or not.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:46 pm

rass wrote:
@NASCAR wrote:With heavy hearts, we turn our attention to today's #CheezIt355.
#NASCAR Countdown begins now on @ESPNNASCAR.

Fuck that, I may go buy some Better Cheddars just because of that.

howard · Post by **howard** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:49 pm

Gunpowder wrote:If you do something stupid like walk into a drug deal and say hi drug dealers and get murdered, isn't it still murder?

Yes, it is still murder. It is also still stupid.

Let me head off any misunderstanding of my question above. I have never been on a race track during a race, but every other situation in which automobiles are moving fast enough to hurt/kill a human being, it is my experience that it is fucking stupid to be a pedestrian. No matter how pissed off your are, or how much you wave your arms. No matter the skill level of the drivers in the situation. Really. Fucking. Stupid. Dying does not make it not stupid, even if the death turns out to be a murder.

This does not ameliorate any blame or intent on the part of Steward. Any inference of such from my question above is an erroneous inference.

Rex · Post by **Rex** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:05 pm

I'm limited in what I can say here because I refuse to watch a video of someone eating it. Unless I see it by accident, I can only talk on the periphery of this, but....

if I killed someone, and it was totally accidental, and I most definitely did not mean to do it, I doubt I'd be functional at all for a few months. I'd be like Woody after he maimed a man at the bowling alley.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:24 pm

Sheriff's Dept reiterated this afternoon that there is currently no evidence of criminal intent

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:42 pm

Knowing nothing of intent or car logic, this is one of those situations I'd like to take over to alternate universe where 20 year old guy rolls over Tony Stewart.

(There's zero chance Stewart faces anything here unless he admits he did something on purpose. That driver guy may as well be black.)

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:54 pm

It takes someone to die to change rules. For example a new stop sign in the neighborhood.

NASCAR should start heavily fining drivers who get out of their car angry, it's so dangerous.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:28 pm

degenerasian wrote:It takes someone to die to change rules. For example a new stop sign in the neighborhood.

NASCAR should start heavily fining drivers who get out of their car angry, it's so dangerous.

Incredibly, incredibly important to point out that not all racing is NASCAR. This was a race that had nothing to with NASCAR.

That said, NASCAR could change the rules regarding drivers confronting other drivers who are in their cars. But given that this was a local track on a regional circuit it's almost impossible to legislate it on that level with a universal rule.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:41 pm

I bet Goodell would still give him a two race suspension hahahahahahaha!!!

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 3:54 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:
degenerasian wrote:It takes someone to die to change rules. For example a new stop sign in the neighborhood.

NASCAR should start heavily fining drivers who get out of their car angry, it's so dangerous.
Incredibly, incredibly important to point out that not all racing is NASCAR. This was a race that had nothing to with NASCAR.

That said, NASCAR could change the rules regarding drivers confronting other drivers who are in their cars. But given that this was a local track on a regional circuit it's almost impossible to legislate it on that level with a universal rule.

True but don't rules and direction come from the top governing body and funnel down?

Using hockey as an example if the NHL banned fighting canadian junior hockey and AHL would too

Post by **brian** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:24 pm

So if you or I did this wouldn't we get charged with at least vehicular manslaughter? Stewart gets a pass because...he's a professional race car driver? He's rich? What am I missing?

rass · Post by **rass** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:29 pm

Brontoburglar wrote:But racing and racers are very very unique. Applying logic and rationality sometimes doesn't always work.

I love you Bronto. Really. And you might even be right. But *faaaaaaarrrrrrrrt noooooiiiiiise*!

rass · Post by **rass** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:32 pm

brian wrote:So if you or I did this wouldn't we get charged with at least vehicular manslaughter? Stewart gets a pass because...he's a professional race car driver? He's rich? What am I missing?

Because it very much could have just been an accident? I don't think every fatal car accident (or even car killing "pedestrian" incident) results a charge of that magnitude.

Post by **brian** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:36 pm

rass wrote:
brian wrote:So if you or I did this wouldn't we get charged with at least vehicular manslaughter? Stewart gets a pass because...he's a professional race car driver? He's rich? What am I missing?
Because it very much could have just been an accident? I don't think every fatal car accident (or even car killing "pedestrian" incident) results a charge of that magnitude.

No, that's true. Not every one. But certainly many (most?) do. I'll grant the actions of the person who gets hit matter even amongst non-racers. I would assume that a professional car driver has a greater responsibility than even an average driver when it comes to not making contact with people on the track though given their (theoretical) higher level of competency driving a vehicle.

ETA: I think the galling thing from my perspective seems to be the general attitude of the investigator's quotes which are somewhere between "nothing to see here" and "LOL, whatevs". If I ran over someone with my car driving home from dinner and killed them, I doubt it would be the same thing, even if that person did in fact run out in front of me and I wasn't at fault. I don't think the police and investigators would be completely pooh-poohing my potential culpability immediately after the accident.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:06 pm

While I get its human nature for any non-terrible person to want this to be nothing but an accident, this quote from the track president (title?) feels really gross: “I can’t see that anybody would’ve done anything intentional like that. He's been great when he’s with us. We’ve had a very good relationship with Tony. We’ve been proud to have him in our field. He’s raced hard. He’s raced clean. He respects what we have to offer. Even what he is, when he comes to our races, he’s there to race. He’s not under contract to some of these tracks, he just shows up.”

degenerasian · Post by **degenerasian** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:02 pm

Yeah it's clear sports operates in a vacuum apart from real life.

Brontoburglar · Post by **Brontoburglar** » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:03 pm

rass wrote:
Brontoburglar wrote:But racing and racers are very very unique. Applying logic and rationality sometimes doesn't always work.
I love you Bronto. Really. And you might even be right. But *faaaaaaarrrrrrrrt noooooiiiiiise*!

Fart noise it all you want -- it's how it is. It's a very weird dynamic and it's something that I'm not sure I even fully grasp. Granted, safety is better than it's ever been, but death has always been something that looms over this. Hell, a NASCAR driver was killed last summer in a sprint car accident. (He was in the car.)

Most every big-time racer knows a person(s) who has died racing. But, with the large caveat that this is something that's completely different than the usual circumstances surrounding an in-race driver death. Thankfully Stewart didn't race today. And the number of questions stemming from this continues to grow.