NBA 2016-17

Post by **brian** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:02 pm

Giff wrote:Rockets completely destroyed the Clippers last night. They are pretty much worst-case #3 seed. Rockets have a pretty wide range of potential final results, but I think their current plan to try and topple the Warriors is possible. You hope 4 out of 7 games your guys shoot how they have for the vast majority of the season. If they keep making 15+ 3s a game and commit to rebounding/defense like they did last night, I'm optimistic they'll at least have the chance.

Made some good dough on this game. My buddy who is a big NBA fan bet $500 on the Rockets and if he's betting a nickel on a game I'm going to put down a hundo.

Rams Fanny · Post by **Rams Fanny** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:05 pm

mister d wrote:Can't shoot and can't pass? Who does he think he is, Antoine Walker???????

That's a bit of an unfair comparison. It's only Lowry's wrist that's broke.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:57 pm

Rams Fanny wrote:
mister d wrote:Can't shoot and can't pass? Who does he think he is, Antoine Walker???????
That's a bit of an unfair comparison. It's only Lowry's wrist that's broke.

Awesome!

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:38 pm

brian wrote:
Giff wrote:Rockets completely destroyed the Clippers last night. They are pretty much worst-case #3 seed. Rockets have a pretty wide range of potential final results, but I think their current plan to try and topple the Warriors is possible. You hope 4 out of 7 games your guys shoot how they have for the vast majority of the season. If they keep making 15+ 3s a game and commit to rebounding/defense like they did last night, I'm optimistic they'll at least have the chance.
Made some good dough on this game. My buddy who is a big NBA fan bet $500 on the Rockets and if he's betting a nickel on a game I'm going to put down a hundo.

Harden and LeBron are the only two acceptable choices for NBA MVP. It'll piss me off way more than it should if Westbrook wins.

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:43 pm

Joe K wrote:
brian wrote:
Giff wrote:Rockets completely destroyed the Clippers last night. They are pretty much worst-case #3 seed. Rockets have a pretty wide range of potential final results, but I think their current plan to try and topple the Warriors is possible. You hope 4 out of 7 games your guys shoot how they have for the vast majority of the season. If they keep making 15+ 3s a game and commit to rebounding/defense like they did last night, I'm optimistic they'll at least have the chance.
Made some good dough on this game. My buddy who is a big NBA fan bet $500 on the Rockets and if he's betting a nickel on a game I'm going to put down a hundo.
Harden and LeBron are the only two acceptable choices for NBA MVP. It'll piss me off way more than it should if Westbrook wins.

as someone who only sees rockets games and gets news second and thirdhand can you explain why? isnt the dude putting up record triple doubles without kd or any semblance of a team? i would have thought in a vacuum westbrook should be a lock...what am i missing?

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:31 pm

I agree that Westbrook should be right there with the other guys. He's having a historic season. But I tend to weight the individual performance heavily. Others apply more substantial weight to the individual leading his team to be around the top of the table. Harden and James are strong even in my version of MVP assessment. If you boost the team aspect, they stand alone.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:07 am

DC47 wrote:I agree that Westbrook should be right there with the other guys. He's having a historic season. But I tend to weight the individual performance heavily. Others apply more substantial weight to the individual leading his team to be around the top of the table. Harden and James are strong even in my version of MVP assessment. If you boost the team I aspect, they stand alone.

I think they've also been better individually, without a boost for team performance. Basically, it comes down to the fact that James and Harden are not only way more efficient scorers than Westbrook, but also more valuable passers. Let's start with scoring. I'm going to give each player's PPG, but then put True Shooting % in parentheses. TS% is the best measure of scoring efficiency, as it properly weights 2s, 3s, and FTs.

Westbrook: 31.4 ppg (54.5% TS%)
Harden: 28.8 ppg (61.4% TS%)
James: 25.7 ppg (61.7% TS%)

So while Westbrook scores the most points of the 3, he's by far the least efficient scorer. Does his extra volume outweigh the drop in efficiency? I don't think so. Certainly not as compared to Harden, who's scoring 28.8 per game himself.

Now let's look at passing. Harden, Westbrook and James rank #1, #3 and #4 in assists, in that order. However, James and Harden have by far the most assists on 3 pointers of anyone in the NBA. On a per-game basis, Westbrook is 9th in that category. Below is a list of each player's total assists per game by the standard stat that doesn't differentiate 2s and 3s, and then a modified version that gives each player an extra "half-assist" for assists on 3s.

Harden: 11.3/13.6
James: 8.9/11.3
Westbrook: 10.1/11.4

So if you look at it this way, Harden is still #1, but by a wider margin, and James almost completely closes the gap with Westbrook. Westbrook also has the worst assist/turnover ratio of the 3, so there's a strong argument that, in addition to being by far the least efficient scorer, he's also the least effective passer.

Maybe it's unfair to put much weight on team stats for an individual award (although each guy is clearly the driving force for his team's attack), but my argument that Harden and James are both better scorers and passers than Westbrook this season is born out by team efficiency stats. The Rockets are 2nd in offensive efficiency; the Cavs are 3rd; the Thunder are tied for 19th with Sacramento. So I feel comfortable, for all these reasons, saying that Harden and James have clearly been better players on the offensive end.

Yes, Westbrook is averaging double figure rebounds per game (10.6). But Harden and James both rebound very well for their positions, with Harden at 8.0 and James at 7.9. I don't think the additional rebounds Westbrook gets nearly overcome the degree to which those guys are better offensively.

Finally, looking at defense, I'm not a huge fan of real plus-minus, but it shows James as by far the best defender of the three players, with Westbrook a somewhat distant second and Harden a very distant third. At least in this case that reflects their reputations. James is certainly the most versatile defender of the three in terms of ability to guard multiple positions.

So in conclusion, I think the choice has to be James or Harden because they've been the two best offensive players in the NBA, while also playing on top-5 teams in the NBA by record. Westbrook has been a much inferior offensive player, triple double average notwithstanding. While you can give him points for defense over Harden (but not James), I don't think it's enough to close the gap. He finishes third in my vote, with Kawhi 4th. Durant would've also been up there, but he's going to miss too many games to be a viable choice.

mister d · Post by **mister d** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:01 am

What would a draft of their teammates look like and does that explain away some of Westbrook's lower efficiency?

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:29 am

mister d wrote:What would a draft of their teammates look like and does that explain away some of Westbrook's lower efficiency?

Actually, Westbrook's advanced stats, including shooting efficiency, are generally right in line with his numbers when he played with Durant. The exceptions are that his usage rate (% of possessions ending in a shot or assist) and rebounding rate are up significantly. The increased usage rate makes sense, for obvious reasons. As for rebounding rate it's probably some combo of (1) Durant having been a strong rebounder and Westbrook stepping up to get a share of his rebounds and (2) Westbrook hunting uncontested rebounds to get triple doubles.

To the more general question about teammates, the Rockets are well constructed to fit D'Antoni's system. But guys like Anderson, Ariza and Gordon are hardly stars. The Cavs obviously have Irving and Love (at least before he got hurt), but LeBron has shown for years now that he can also thrive with mediocre teammates. It's still incredible that his 2006-10 Cavs teams were consistently in contention with otherwise terrible rosters, and that LeBron got the 2015 Cavs to the finals with Love out and Irving badly hobbled. I'd probably vote LeBron #1 this year because if you didn't know anything else about the rest of your roster composition, LeBron is the guy you'd take 10 times out of 10.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:34 am

PS The non-Westbrook portion of the Thunder is really, really, really not good. I'd say they're more talented but less trustworthy than LeBron's early Cavs teams

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:15 am

Ryan wrote:PS The non-Westbrook portion of the Thunder is really, really, really not good. I'd say they're more talented but less trustworthy than LeBron's early Cavs teams

I agree it's not a good roster and, don't get me wrong, I think Westbrook is a great player who should be All-NBA First Team this year. But his comparative lack of shooting efficiency is a real downside, as compared to the league's other superstar players. And that was the case even when he was on better teams. In Games 5-7 of last year's West Finals, Westbrook took a ton of shots, but shot only 36.8% from the field and 23.8% on 3s, while averaging 5 turnovers per game. That's pretty bad. In fairness, Durant also struggled in Games 5 and 6, but Westbrook is probably the biggest reason why the Thunder lost that series lead.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:39 am

I'm only half-defending Westbrook here because I'd probably have him 2nd or 3rd too at this point, but it's also worth pointing out that when you factor in usage rates, his turnovers aren't as historically high as the box scores would make it seem.

Out of every 8 APG season in the NBA, this year's Westbrook has the 146th worst turnover rate. Pretty much every John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Isiah Thomas, John Wall, Mark Jackson, Kevin Johnson season is worse. By a lot. Also James Harden this year.

By the way, 8 of the 30 BEST turnover rates are Chris Paul. And 4 of the top 5 are four consecutive Gary Payton seasons.

http://bkref.com/tiny/nmXE6

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:33 pm

NBA defenses focus more on Westbrook than anyone. Look at who is on the floor with him. He has a lot to overcome on the offensive side. How do stats assess this factor?

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:54 pm

DC47 wrote:NBA defenses focus more on Westbrook than anyone. Look at who is on the floor with him. He has a lot to overcome on the offensive side. How do stats assess this factor?

You got any evidence for this assertion that he draws more attention than guys like James, Harden, Durant, Curry, etc.? You certainly don't need to closely guard him from 30 feet and in like you might a Durant or Curry. And the shooting efficiency gap I identified was present even when Westbrook played with better teammates like Durant, Ibaka and Harden. So that suggests it might not be just attributable to other teams' defenses.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:58 pm

The previous analysis was solid in my view. And I cannot point to stats that demonstrate Westbrook gets more defensive attention than the other MVP candidates. But my eye test says he does. This is supported by clear evidence that his team mates aren't that good on offense. Westbrook's historic efficiency stat does support your point. However, it's also consistent with Westbrook really stepping up his offensive game, and drawing more defensive attention.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:20 pm

DC47 wrote:The previous analysis was solid in my view. And I cannot point to stats that demonstrate Westbrook gets more defensive attention than the other MVP candidates. But my eye test says he does. This is supported by clear evidence that his team mates aren't that good on offense. Westbrook's historic efficiency stat does support your point. However, it's also consistent with Westbrook really stepping up his offensive game, and drawing more defensive attention.

Westbrook has had a great year, but I think Harden and James are just as indispensable to their teams, while also playing at a higher level individually. Mike D'Antoni's system is so dependent on having an elite lead playmaker. If you surrounded a league average Guard with Capela, Anderson, Ariza and Beverly/Gordon, that would be a garbage team. But the Rockets will likely win 55+. Harden's season is every bit as good as any of Steve Nash's seasons playing that role. And although Cleveland has a deep, talented roster, everyone's role focuses on playing off of LeBron's strengths as a playmaker. The Cavs are something like 4-19 without LeBron since 2014, despite having Irving and Love. In addition to being the best scorer, he's also the top playmaker and most important defender on that team.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:49 pm

All strong points. Though I wonder about the one re: Cav's record without LeBron. Were these games after the point at which Irving had become a legitimately strong player and Love had figured out how to be good in the Cav's context? Also, were they even in the lineup? That's a serious question as both have missed a lot of games.

Somehow I had never thought of Harden as the "Steve Nash" of the Houston team. I guess I haven't given enough consideration to the notion that they have fundamentally changed due to D'Antoni. This comparison highlights the brilliance of Harden's season. I don't recall every rotation player in the Nash heyday. But he had Stoudamire, and there is no equivalent in Houston today. Having a nice group of rotation players around you (Harden) is nothing like having that plus a superstar whose strengths perfectly suit your style of play (Stoudamire). I wonder what Harden could do in Houston if a peak Stoudamire was magically dropped into that roster?

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:27 am

Joe K wrote:
mister d wrote:What would a draft of their teammates look like and does that explain away some of Westbrook's lower efficiency?
Actually, Westbrook's advanced stats, including shooting efficiency, are generally right in line with his numbers when he played with Durant. The exceptions are that his usage rate (% of possessions ending in a shot or assist) and rebounding rate are up significantly. The increased usage rate makes sense, for obvious reasons. As for rebounding rate it's probably some combo of (1) Durant having been a strong rebounder and Westbrook stepping up to get a share of his rebounds and (2) Westbrook hunting uncontested rebounds to get triple doubles.

To the more general question about teammates, the Rockets are well constructed to fit D'Antoni's system. But guys like Anderson, Ariza and Gordon are hardly stars. The Cavs obviously have Irving and Love (at least before he got hurt), but LeBron has shown for years now that he can also thrive with mediocre teammates. It's still incredible that his 2006-10 Cavs teams were consistently in contention with otherwise terrible rosters, and that LeBron got the 2015 Cavs to the finals with Love out and Irving badly hobbled. I'd probably vote LeBron #1 this year because if you didn't know anything else about the rest of your roster composition, LeBron is the guy you'd take 10 times out of 10.

by that logic wouldnt lebron be mvp every year because all other things being what they are, youd always take lebron first overall?

TT2.0 · Post by **TT2.0** » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:30 am

DC47 wrote:All strong points. Though I wonder about the one re: Cav's record without LeBron. Were these games after the point at which Irving had become a legitimately strong player and Love had figured out how to be good in the Cav's context? Also, were they even in the lineup? That's a serious question as both have missed a lot of games.

Somehow I had never thought of Harden as the "Steve Nash" of the Houston team. I guess I haven't given enough consideration to the notion that they have fundamentally changed due to D'Antoni. This comparison highlights the brilliance of Harden's season. I don't recall every rotation player in the Nash heyday. But he had Stoudamire, and there is no equivalent in Houston today. Having a nice group of rotation players around you (Harden) is nothing like having that plus a superstar whose strengths perfectly suit your style of play (Stoudamire). I wonder what Harden could do in Houston if a peak Stoudamire was magically dropped into that roster?

with an elite big the rockets would win a ring with this roster. i have no doubt. they can outscore any team, and they shoot the lights out from behind the arc. harden is having his best year, and thats including the year he should have been mvp over steph. harden should be mvp. westbrook has been picked apart and lebron has love and irving. the rockets are elite in a better conference and if you take harden out of the mix they might be a 35 win team at best.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:10 am

TT2.0 wrote:
Joe K wrote:
mister d wrote:What would a draft of their teammates look like and does that explain away some of Westbrook's lower efficiency?
Actually, Westbrook's advanced stats, including shooting efficiency, are generally right in line with his numbers when he played with Durant. The exceptions are that his usage rate (% of possessions ending in a shot or assist) and rebounding rate are up significantly. The increased usage rate makes sense, for obvious reasons. As for rebounding rate it's probably some combo of (1) Durant having been a strong rebounder and Westbrook stepping up to get a share of his rebounds and (2) Westbrook hunting uncontested rebounds to get triple doubles.

To the more general question about teammates, the Rockets are well constructed to fit D'Antoni's system. But guys like Anderson, Ariza and Gordon are hardly stars. The Cavs obviously have Irving and Love (at least before he got hurt), but LeBron has shown for years now that he can also thrive with mediocre teammates. It's still incredible that his 2006-10 Cavs teams were consistently in contention with otherwise terrible rosters, and that LeBron got the 2015 Cavs to the finals with Love out and Irving badly hobbled. I'd probably vote LeBron #1 this year because if you didn't know anything else about the rest of your roster composition, LeBron is the guy you'd take 10 times out of 10.
by that logic wouldnt lebron be mvp every year because all other things being what they are, youd always take lebron first overall?

You could definitely make an argument that LeBron should have more than 4 MVPs, as he's probably been the best player in the NBA since around 2006. I think LeBron was clearly a better overall player than Nash (2006), Dirk (2007) and Kobe (2008), but those guys' teams were way better and they were rewarded for that. Also, fair or not, voters docked LeBron in 2011 and 2015 because his first regular season in Miami and back in Cleveland didn't go quite as smoothly as expected from a W/L perspective. Durant's MVP (2014) and Curry's 2nd MVP (2016) are just about impossible to quibble with, however.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:24 am

TT2.0 wrote:
DC47 wrote:All strong points. Though I wonder about the one re: Cav's record without LeBron. Were these games after the point at which Irving had become a legitimately strong player and Love had figured out how to be good in the Cav's context? Also, were they even in the lineup? That's a serious question as both have missed a lot of games.

Somehow I had never thought of Harden as the "Steve Nash" of the Houston team. I guess I haven't given enough consideration to the notion that they have fundamentally changed due to D'Antoni. This comparison highlights the brilliance of Harden's season. I don't recall every rotation player in the Nash heyday. But he had Stoudamire, and there is no equivalent in Houston today. Having a nice group of rotation players around you (Harden) is nothing like having that plus a superstar whose strengths perfectly suit your style of play (Stoudamire). I wonder what Harden could do in Houston if a peak Stoudamire was magically dropped into that roster?
with an elite big the rockets would win a ring with this roster. i have no doubt. they can outscore any team, and they shoot the lights out from behind the arc. harden is having his best year, and thats including the year he should have been mvp over steph. harden should be mvp. westbrook has been picked apart and lebron has love and irving. the rockets are elite in a better conference and if you take harden out of the mix they might be a 35 win team at best.

I think Harden will probably win it, because he's had a fantastic season and the Rockets' team success has also been somewhat surprising. (D'Antoni seems like a near lock for Coach of the Year for the same reason.) But I don't think that the Cavs' supporting cast will end up being a great argument for Harden over LeBron, because Love will end up missing close to 30 games due to his knee injury and JR Smith will end up missing at least half the season due to his injury. One fairly significant edge Harden will likely have over LeBron, however, is that Harden has played every game for the Rockets and LeBron has 5 DNP-Rests (and counting). Obviously it's a smart strategy for the Cavs to give LeBron games off, since they still have a 3 game cushion for the #1 seed. But if both guys have awesome seasons, and one of them plays all 82 games while the other plays 70-75 games, that's a clear point in Harden's favor.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:03 pm

I haven't looked at NBA stats this year. But aren't there pretty convincing analyses of individual defense? I imagine Kawhi Leonard is doing very well. He seems to have elevated his offensive game a bit. His team is doing great. Why is he not right there with the top MVP candidates?

As I said, I'm not basing this view on stats. And I think they're pretty valuable in solid. It's all based on just watching a few games. Oh, and being a long-time Spurs fan, which is exacerbated whenever the Pistons -- my childhood team -- is causing me too much pain. I'm genuinely curious as to how Leonard is not rated with the usual MVP suspects, especially based on a statistically oriented viewpoint.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:51 pm

DC47 wrote:I haven't looked at NBA stats this year. But aren't there pretty convincing analyses of individual defense? I imagine Kawhi Leonard is doing very well. He seems to have elevated his offensive game a bit. His team is doing great. Why is he not right there with the top MVP candidates?

As I said, I'm not basing this view on stats. And I think they're pretty valuable in solid. It's all based on just watching a few games. Oh, and being a long-time Spurs fan, which is exacerbated whenever the Pistons -- my childhood team -- is causing me too much pain. I'm genuinely curious as to how Leonard is not rated with the usual MVP suspects, especially based on a statistically oriented viewpoint.

Leonard is great. I'd put him 4th in the MVP race, and I'd bet that's where he finishes up. The only reason I wouldn't put him higher is that his assist numbers are nowhere near the top-3 candidates. But he's been every bit the efficient scorer as Harden and James and is a much better defender than Harden or Westbrook. (I think James is comparable to Leonard on the defensive end when he goes balls to the wall. The Cavs just don't play with much defensive intensity during most regular season games.)

Post by **Shirley** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:19 am

Joe, you made a great case for James and Harden, and then sort of diminished it by hand-waving about defense. It's half of the game! It's true that it's much harder to quantify defense with stats than offense, but I don't think that means it should be ignored. At the very least, use it to help break up close offensive players.

Given the data you presented already, it would seem like LeBron is a no-brainer for MVP (as he should be most years). I'd say either Westbrook or Leonard next, with Hardin coming in fourth.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:53 pm

Shirley wrote:Joe, you made a great case for James and Harden, and then sort of diminished it by hand-waving about defense. It's half of the game! It's true that it's much harder to quantify defense with stats than offense, but I don't think that means it should be ignored. At the very least, use it to help break up close offensive players.

Given the data you presented already, it would seem like LeBron is a no-brainer for MVP (as he should be most years). I'd say either Westbrook or Leonard next, with Hardin coming in fourth.

Apart from it being hard to quantify individual player defense, I think that good/bad defense in the NBA is generally more about team concepts than individual play. Other than a big man who is either really good (Rudy Gobert) or really terrible (Jahlil Okafor) on defense I just don't think any one player can have the same overall impact as a really dynamic player can have on offense. (Kawhi is probably the best perimeter defender in the NBA, but I still think he provides much more value to the Spurs with his offense.) So even though Harden isn't a good defender, I don't view that as coming anywhere close to negating his offensive brilliance. If you replaced Harden with someone like Tony Allen (great defender; poor offensive player), the Rockets would be a lot worse off.

Post by **Shirley** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:37 pm

Joe K wrote:
Shirley wrote:Joe, you made a great case for James and Harden, and then sort of diminished it by hand-waving about defense. It's half of the game! It's true that it's much harder to quantify defense with stats than offense, but I don't think that means it should be ignored. At the very least, use it to help break up close offensive players.

Given the data you presented already, it would seem like LeBron is a no-brainer for MVP (as he should be most years). I'd say either Westbrook or Leonard next, with Hardin coming in fourth.
Apart from it being hard to quantify individual player defense, I think that good/bad defense in the NBA is generally more about team concepts than individual play. Other than a big man who is either really good (Rudy Gobert) or really terrible (Jahlil Okafor) on defense I just don't think any one player can have the same overall impact as a really dynamic player can have on offense. (Kawhi is probably the best perimeter defender in the NBA, but I still think he provides much more value to the Spurs with his offense.) So even though Harden isn't a good defender, I don't view that as coming anywhere close to negating his offensive brilliance. If you replaced Harden with someone like Tony Allen (great defender; poor offensive player), the Rockets would be a lot worse off.

Yeah, I agree. So maybe when evaluating an individual, it isn't 50/50 offense/defense, but it can't be 100/0 either. Team defense doesn't work well with only 4 players. So an individual's defensive performance should be factored in somehow. For these guys, there may not be a great stat to summarize their defensive performance, but I think all can agree that LeBron and Kawhi are MUCH better defenders than Harden. Westbrook is somewhere in the middle. If their offensive numbers are fairly close, defense should sway the decision.

tennbengal · Post by **tennbengal** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:28 am

Awesome from Burneko at Deadspin:

http://deadspin.com/oh-will-you-shut-up ... 1793108892

ETA: Article addressing the defense crowd in the MVP argument...

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:46 am

So is coach of the year Brad Stevens or Scott Brooks. I am saying it has to be Brooks because.....well its the wizards and they always stink. However, getting them to buy into playing defense, figuring out Otto Porter Jr can shoot and if you look at the Wiz's first 10-15 games you would have assumed lots of ping pong balls in their future. Something to coaching in this turn around.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:59 am

wlu_lax6 wrote:So is coach of the year Brad Stevens or Scott Brooks. I am saying it has to be Brooks because.....well its the wizards and they always stink. However, getting them to buy into playing defense, figuring out Otto Porter Jr can shoot and if you look at the Wiz's first 10-15 games you would have assumed lots of ping pong balls in their future. Something to coaching in this turn around.

I'd go with Mike D'Antoni over either of those guys. Rockets have the 2nd best offense in the NBA (may be #1 by the season's end with the Durant injury), and that's pretty clearly attributable to the way his system has maximized players' value.

Giff · Post by **Giff** » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:11 am

Yeah, it has to be D'Antoni.

DC47 · Post by **DC47** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:41 pm

LeBron is coaching pretty well too.

sancarlos · Post by **sancarlos** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:26 pm

Post by **brian** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:53 am

Besides, tell our underpaid service members and police and first responders to rest. They can't.

Karl Malone is an idiot.

First, trying to do a comp of pro athletes to cops or the military is always a dumb argument.

Second. And Johnnie can correct me if I'm wrong but I think cops and the military get days off as well.

wlu_lax6 · Post by **wlu_lax6** » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:28 am

T-wolves likely set the NBA record for most kicked balls in a season.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nba-te ... 1491230024

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:42 pm

Look. My team has blown goats lately. Terrible. Plus I've been NCAA distracted. But lebron chose the nuclear option in that second quarter. THat was a message. Eastern conference still goes through 23.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:48 pm

I do love Brad Stevens.

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:51 pm

I'm six inches taller than Thomas. And I couldn't check him if I was handling coats at bostons best restaurant.

Pruitt · Post by **Pruitt** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:28 pm

A_B wrote:Look. My team has blown goats lately. Terrible. Plus I've been NCAA distracted. But lebron chose the nuclear option in that second quarter. THat was a message. Eastern conference still goes through 23.

Did anyone ever think otherwise?

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:46 pm

Pruitt wrote:
A_B wrote:Look. My team has blown goats lately. Terrible. Plus I've been NCAA distracted. But lebron chose the nuclear option in that second quarter. THat was a message. Eastern conference still goes through 23.
Did anyone ever think otherwise?

Nope. You're right. Let no one make a statement others agree with henceforth.

Joe K · Post by **Joe K** » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:56 pm

A_B wrote:
Pruitt wrote:
A_B wrote:Look. My team has blown goats lately. Terrible. Plus I've been NCAA distracted. But lebron chose the nuclear option in that second quarter. THat was a message. Eastern conference still goes through 23.
Did anyone ever think otherwise?
Nope. You're right. Let no one make a statement others agree with henceforth.

There was plenty of "are the Cavs in trouble" talk the past week or so. It wasn't entirely unfounded, as their defense has been one of the worst in the NBA since the New Year. But with JR Smith starting to round into form, I'm not worried about them. It's pretty obvious that they coast quite a bit on defense during the regular season and are capable of turning it up a notch in the playoffs.