Random Thoughts About Thoughts Random

[A_B]

I don’t think they are taxed when you buy so you have to tax after.

[L-Jam3]

And then these same stores have the nerve to add on an additional charge because you pay with a credit card.

When you pay for something by credit/debit, the vendor has to pay Visa/Mastercard/American Express or the bank a small percentage of the sale, usually 1.5 to 3%. This is the interchange fee, which is what credit card companies charge vendors so that the vendors can make higher sales instead of every carrying around wads of cash. That 1.5 to 3% directly eats into the vendors’ profits, and for certain businesses with extremely narrow profit margins, such as gas stations, it can be a massive expense. When a vendor charges more on credit purchases, it’s not necessarily to gain an extra chunk of change on the transaction (although it could be if it’s high enough), but rather to have the same level of profit on the transaction than if it were paid in greenbacks.

I know this because about 15 years ago I worked on a case from an unnamed “bank” that does a lot of business in the United States “of America” was really squeezing vendors with their interchange fees so much that there was class actions against that unnamed financial institution.

[Johnnie]

I don’t think they are taxed when you buy so you have to tax after.

Yea, I googled it. The example is what's to stop you from getting a gift card for the exact purchase price of a very large amount making the thing you purchased $0 and avoiding tax.

Maybe it's a state to state difference with small amounts, but I think my ire is moreso that I have calculating sales tax separately from purchase price. (Especially when online the purchase price is probably cheaper as well as the potential sales tax applied.)

And then these same stores have the nerve to add on an additional charge because you pay with a credit card.

When you pay for something by credit/debit, the vendor has to pay Visa/Mastercard/American Express or the bank a small percentage of the sale, usually 1.5 to 3%. This is the interchange fee, which is what credit card companies charge vendors so that the vendors can make higher sales instead of every carrying around wads of cash. That 1.5 to 3% directly eats into the vendors’ profits, and for certain businesses with extremely narrow profit margins, such as gas stations, it can be a massive expense. When a vendor charges more on credit purchases, it’s not necessarily to gain an extra chunk of change on the transaction (although it could be if it’s high enough), but rather to have the same level of profit on the transaction than if it were paid in greenbacks.

I know this because about 15 years ago I worked on a case from an unnamed “bank” that does a lot of business in the United States “of America” was really squeezing vendors with their interchange fees so much that there was class actions against that unnamed financial institution.

I am totally cool with minimum purchase prices for using credit cards or having to pay the fee. But when it applies to literally all transactions no matter what, it's annoying as hell.

I first ran into this at a gun show 10+ years ago. The price of the gun was $X if paid in cash, but $X + 5% if paid by card. Like, I'm not carrying that much cash on me ever so I guess I'll pass and let your inventory stay strapped.

[P.D.X.]

Yeah I gotta pay 2.6% on card transactions. I eat a few grand a year subsequently (and that doesn't include Etsy sales whose total fees come to around 10%/sale). So yeah, if you want to support small biz then pay with cash/check.

[GoodKarma]

Am I making this up or did there used to be some sort of ask or rule (I"m talking about back in the 80's or 90's) that credit card companies tried to enforce about not allowing vendors to charge a fee for using a credit card?

[sancarlos]

My issue are gift cards that expire. That seems REALLY shady to me.

I just booked a flight on Southwest to go check on my aging parents. I almost forgot to use an old SW gift card I had - I was afraid it had expired. Luckily it had no expiration date. But, if they give you credit because a flight gets cancelled, or for some other reason, those credits are typically only valid for one year.

[sancarlos]

Am I making this up or did there used to be some sort of ask or rule (I"m talking about back in the 80's or 90's) that credit card companies tried to enforce about not allowing vendors to charge a fee for using a credit card?

I dunno. Some gas stations have always charged more if you use credit rather than cash. They can call it a cash discount, but it’s really a credit fee.

[Gunpowder]

Credit card companies should be burned to the ground so I can't really take much issue with the vendors.

[The Sybian]

It will never not piss me off that some stores that offer gift cards will only apply them to the full price price plus sales tax instead of to the item(s) before tax is calculated.

And then these same stores have the nerve to add on an additional charge because you pay with a credit card.

Pretty sure it would be tax fraud to not do that. It's not a discount, it's just a different way to pay. Otherwise, you'd could just always buy a gift card first and then buy what you want to buy and never pay taxes.

Is it? That seems weird.

Edited, because I read your response again.

I’m with Shirley, a gift card isn’t like buying an item on sale, you are paying full price and should pay full tax.

[mister d]

I don't think that makes sense. Like pretend your kid occasionally calls you and says "I forgot money, can you send me a GC for starbucks" so, being a top notch dad, you text a $10 gift card for her to use immediately. If I pay tax on the GC and then she pays tax on the mocha frappuccino, isn't that double taxing the same singular item? A gift card has no inherent value beyond the ability to be spent on a future good/service.

[Johnnie]

Ah, how about instead of a gift card it's "store credit."

[sancarlos]

I don’t think you generally pay sales tax when you buy a gift card, do you?

[A_B]

I don’t think you generally pay sales tax when you buy a gift card, do you?

People are saying this...

[A_B]

Ah, how about instead of a gift card it's "store credit."

Store credit is usually when you are making a return and forget your card or it's a gift receipt. Which means it was already taxed, but they will give you the full purchase price + tax for your store credit card under the stipulation that you use it in their store via the card. Then when you go to use that card, you have to pay the taxes you got back so you're back at square one. It's all accounting entries, but I know the IRS is getting their cut.

[The Sybian]

I don’t think you generally pay sales tax when you buy a gift card, do you?

No. With a Visa/Master Card you pay a service fee, but otherwise you buy a $50 gift card you pay $50.

[Johnnie]

A Cyber Truck passed by me on base while a Top Dog Law commercial played on the radio.

The douchechills were palpable.

Edit

.....aaaaand I know the person who bought it.

[Steve of phpBB]

Am I making this up or did there used to be some sort of ask or rule (I"m talking about back in the 80's or 90's) that credit card companies tried to enforce about not allowing vendors to charge a fee for using a credit card?

I remember hearing that, too. But it was probably just wrong, because as SC pointed out, gas stations have long had different prices for cash and credit.

We eat about 2.5% when we accept payments by credit card, but it's worth it to us to make it easier for clients to pay us.

[Giff]

I don’t mind them passing that fee onto me, just don’t make it a minimum purchase thing.

[mister d]

I assume the flat fee portion of the interchange makes sales a loss up to a certain point.

[HaulCitgo]

Am I making this up or did there used to be some sort of ask or rule (I"m talking about back in the 80's or 90's) that credit card companies tried to enforce about not allowing vendors to charge a fee for using a credit card?

I remember hearing that, too. But it was probably just wrong, because as SC pointed out, gas stations have long had different prices for cash and credit.

We eat about 2.5% when we accept payments by credit card, but it's worth it to us to make it easier for clients to pay us.

Right out of margin which sucks but I agree make it easy. But chargebacks. Get sideways on a large payment and thats unpleasant. They just claw it back first and decide later.

[govmentchedda]

Am I making this up or did there used to be some sort of ask or rule (I"m talking about back in the 80's or 90's) that credit card companies tried to enforce about not allowing vendors to charge a fee for using a credit card?

I remember hearing that, too. But it was probably just wrong, because as SC pointed out, gas stations have long had different prices for cash and credit.

We eat about 2.5% when we accept payments by credit card, but it's worth it to us to make it easier for clients to pay us.

Same. Worth every penny. So much easier than waiting on a check.

[EdRomero]

We've had families asking us for years to let them pay tuition br credit card, but we explained the fee would be too much for our budget. Parents said they would pay the fee but our billing company said it's illegal in Massachusetts (and I think Minnesota) for businesses to pass along the credit card fee to the consumer, but legal everywhere else. Some programs get around it by offering discounts for families who pay by check, but that seemed like a risky fine print move. Also, when I pay city taxes online, they charge a credit card fee so there must be exceptions. The local food truck does the same, but I don't think gas stations in Mass do. We finally agreed to offer ACH payments, which is about half the fee of credit card companies.

Getting fees from lots of consumers and all merchants, what a great scam credit cards have...and those banks still had to be bailed out.

[Gunpowder]

You guys realize that if they only had one price it would almost certainly be the higher one, right?

[Giff]

We occasionally receive e-mails from our girls' schools about the presence of EMT on campus for an unspecified reason (if it's a student, they say the student's parents have already been contacted) in case they mention it after school. We got one yesterday from the elementary and I thought nothing of it. It turns out it involved a teacher who taught Harper in second grade, and she didn't make it. Pretty devastating way to end the school year.

[mister d]

That's awful. Hopefully nothing happened in front of any kids.

[Giff]

Yeah, we don't know yet. I texted a friend whose daughter also goes there to see if he had heard and his response implied he knew what happened, so waiting on more info. We're friends with so many teachers up there that I'm sure we'll get the info soon enough. Just can't imagine the mood up there today.

[duff]

God damn. That is awful.

[Giff]

Sounds like it wasn't in front of the kids, but just barely. She apparently had gone back in after bus duty at the end of the day and started coughing up blood, and they think she had passed before ever leaving the school.

[Shirley]

I imagine that if you told an elementary school teacher that they had to die at school one day but they get to pick a day, none would choose right at the end of the school year.

[sancarlos]

Wow, that’s rough. Hope Harper isn’t too badly affected, Giff.

[EdRomero]

I imagine that if you told an elementary school teacher that they had to die at school one day but they get to pick a day, none would choose right at the end of the school year.

With the school year end being pushed back and the usual bullshit this time of year is pretty high on my list.

[A_B]

Well that's one way to respond.

[Steve of phpBB]

Good lord, that sounds awful.

[Giff]

Yeah, rumors are starting to fly around about the school telling the kids or not. They are literally getting out of school right now, and we haven't received an actual e-mail from the school yet, so I hope they didn't tell the kids without telling us they told them.

[Giff]

Just got off the phone with a friend of mine who's been diagnosed with kidney cancer. He started off with permission for us to still use our joke of saying "kidneys" while pointing to our head whenever we both say the same smart thing. (it's based off an Aggie joke)

[sancarlos]

Just got off the phone with a friend of mine who's been diagnosed with kidney cancer. He started off with permission for us to still use our joke of saying "kidneys" while pointing to our head whenever we both say the same smart thing. (it's based off an Aggie joke)

Ignorant question - but can he be cured by getting a kidney transplant? A good friend of mine has had two kidney transplants. I volunteered to donate the second one, but they threw me out fairly late in the review process, because my blood glucose and sodium levels were too high. Nonetheless, his two transplants have (so far) solved his kidney problems (I don't think it was cancer) and extended his life.

Crazy note - My friend's nephew was determined to be a good donor, but not for him. Somebody organized a pool of eight good donors who weren't good for their proposed eight recipients and worked it out so that each donor gave one, and each recipient received one - each from a person they did not know. Lots cross-country plane flights with kidneys aboard. He said it worked out for everybody in the pool.

[Giff]

He didn't mention that as a possibility, even when I offered one.

[Johnnie]

My experience with asking cancer docs this question (because my wife gets quarterly checkups because of her melanoma experience) is that "you cut the cancer off of the kidney and go from there."

One of my wife's scans showed a 'mass' on her kidney which, after surgery, ended up just being a wart-like substance. (I forget the term.)

Same same when a few months later a 'mass' showed up on her liver. It was a normal spot because of, they think, prolonged birth control usage.

Hopefully your friend can get quick treatment, Gift. Cancer sucks.

[Giff]

I just want y’all to know I’ve had some drinks today so I’m feeling nostalgic and thankful. I really love this board and all you people. I think about those I’ve met and those I want to (which is all of you) and feel extremely grateful that I stumbled upon this site 19 years ago.

[The Sybian]

I just want y’all to know I’ve had some drinks today so I’m feeling nostalgic and thankful. I really love this board and all you people. I think about those I’ve met and those I want to (which is all of you) and feel extremely grateful that I stumbled upon this site 19 years ago.

I was just realized last month was my 20 year anniversary. Although now I’m think it might be 19 years.